Getting closer to starting my 404 Jeffery project. Have some questions, looking for comments and wanted to run my thoughts by some of you guys with experence.

Actions- my original plan was to use CZ 550 action ($452 if I remember correctly per my FFL buddy if available) Not sure on feeding and what it will take to get it feed. I do not know if the factory follower will work or not and magazine box modifications if necessary. Also not crazy about cutting rails, have not had good results in the past with other actions, looking for comments on what to exspect. I like the 3 pos safety on my CZ 416 was very easy to install and trigger was easy to adj.

Based on input from one of the AR guys he suggested I buy Mod 70 Classic in 300 ultra mag and start with that to ease my concerns on feeding. But have concerns on mag capacity, guess it would be 3. Also not sure if all Classics are CRF and how they feed.

Barrels - Orginal plan was to buy Lothar Walther, but after finaly getting in touch with them and hearing a line of BS that would put a travel traler salesman to shame I did not order one. I was prepaired to buy one when I called, just wanted price, delivery, but after talking to Woody I know less than I did before I called. I'll call Pac Nor or Montana Rifleman and check on a barrel, guess I could go to therapy and call Lothar back, I would like to have one of there barrels.

Sights - I know little about experss sights, only have one rifle with express sight and its a 550 in 416 and I really like the sights but may not know any better. Thought about buying 550 CZ in 375 and using the sights based on price of buying experss sights out right.

Barrel lug - not sure if 404 Jeffery needs front lug or not, but think it wouldn't hurt to have one, comments please.

Anyting other gotcha's I may not know of.

Gringo,

it was me that suggested the model 70. all classics are CRF, that's what the classic means as a reversion to the pre64 style gun vs the pushfeed



I'll also suggest you call Dan at MRC and see about them providing you a Long action (same features as a model 70) and a 404 .423 barrel.



The sights are easily enough to call, NECG.



as for a barrel lug, not needed on a 404, but cross bolts will be



do have a barrel band sling



the cz will cost you whatever for the action, plus 200 for the safety, which is more than the classic mod70 in 300 rum will run you, and the classic will feed 404 type cases, with the proper boltsface (call it another 150 bucks gunsmithing time)



here's a blued 300rum classic, for $511 "buy it now" (link updated)

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=17946654



here's a stainless 300 rum for 435 "buy it now" price (auction ends about midnight 4/25/04)

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=17968368

Jeffe,

I love it when a plan comes together, I knew you would repsond with the best deal in town on Mdl 70.

Gringo...

I just put in an order for a .404 action and Barrel from MRC the pre-production price is $525.00 add $180.00 for a barreled action. This is a stainless action and barrel. I just had to buy it at that price.

Hey man where did you get your 3 position safety for your CZ. A buddy of mine just bought a 550 and I'd like to steer him in that direction.

I don't have much use for a 404 without a drop box and I could not find one for the MRC that I bought, so I sold it and went with the CZ-550 in .375 and had Brockman do the metal work with a LW barrel..It will hold 4 or maybe 5 down with a little work....My English pattern stock in a laminated wood turned on cnc equipment..

If you want a .404 to work 100% then you are going to have to do some rail work, its in the cards, otherwise you are limited to a M-70 custom shop rifle..There is just too much difference between the RUM and the 404 to make them work together in the same hole.

Surestrike,

I bought a three position drop in from CZ USA, $65 if I remember, it's not a 3 positon mdl 70 style, which I prefer.

Ray,

Thanks for the imput, as far as the work on the bottom metal, was it just the box or did it require all new bottom metal. Even though I've built a fair amount of rifles over the yrs they were the normal stuff for the most part and I'm having a hard time understanding how the stack should be, box width etc.

Dropbox required?

that would be 1/4 the cost of this fellas' concept of a gun, ray. If a fella nees more than 4 shots in a bolt gun, he either needs to practice more or move up a round or three Sure, a 5th or 6th shot is great to have as a back up... but 3 down, one in the pipe works just fine and dandy, when the chips are down.

Now, I have not emptied a rifle into a nyati... then again, the only time i've been hunting and EMPTIED a rifle is rabbit hunting during turkey season. No, wait, there's been a pig cull or three that the guns went click.. but those are different stories




. on a rum and 404 not feeding.. this is a modern winchester.. which relies on the follower and mag lips, not the rails to the extent a mauser does.

The dropbox, on a cz, gets into the 1000 range, for just the action, safey and mag... and Gringo doesn't want to deal with LW, as they jerked him around already... now we are talking about a 2 grand gun, when a 404 can be had for less than 1000

jeffe

jeffe

Gavacho Casador,
The stack seems to be fine on the CZs big box and I am using the original magazine (bottom metal) remember that thing holds a weeks worth of 375s from the factory...We are working on making it take 5 as I think this can be done simply by widening the rear of the box just enough to spread the box and give the rounds more stagger. I will let you know how that goes. Give Jim Brockman a call and discuss it with him.

Jeffe,
As to how many down one wants, I suppose that has a lot to do with ones experiences more than it does with what seems right at the moment, like now on this forum...I would have agreed with you until a couple of instances changed my thinking and I am a product of experiences, right or wrong. I think most of us are.

I have seen a couple of situations wherein folks had to reload at the most inopertune times and I know on ocassions and have been in on a couple of kills that buffalo took up to 10 to 15 mostly good solid hits before they give up the ghost..I now prefer to correct my mistakes before they happen not after they happen...therefore I like as many in the magazine as I can get, so thats my thinking in so far as bolt guns go...

Ray,

fair enough.. I was taking a dig at ya on the 500 vs the 404.. and mag capacity....



meant to be a good jag, not meant to piss ya off



then again, the new classic does rely on the maglips.. and the follower to feed...



my opinion is the cz or win is a good route.. the modeljust is cheaper...



i think the case on dropbox IS my lack of experience... haven't had one, so i don't know what I am missing



jeffe

Gringo, see my original post on my .404/M70 (.300RUM) rifle. It turned out great, feeds slicker than any rifle I have & shoots way better than I can hold a 5x scope. I just got back form the range today trying some of Mike's .380gr NorthForks. I had several groups just over 1MOA w/ his bullets & the Barnes 400gr solids going right @ 2200fps. Yes I get only (3) down, but new bottom metal & stock will have to wait until next year. This year is buffalo season!

Fred, did you have any issues of a misfit between the ultramag and the 404 as Ray indicated? I understand there are subtle differences in the two cases. Thanks, "D"

D, my smith did all of the feed work & he didn't seem to indicate it was much of an issue. I was looking for a good starting point, right lenght, follower, etc. everything has been working smoothly, so I would say it's a success.

Jeffeoso,
Sorry, your humor went over my head, age you know! the old mind is slowing down, or recoil is taking its effect!

I don't know how this would fit into your plans, but Winchester is apparently making a 404 in one of their higher grade rifles.
Winchester 70 404 Jeff.

Richard, you can have one built alot sooner for alot less money & alot nicer if you have someone other than the Win. CS do it.