jjs mentioned that George Hoffman had recommended H4831 in the .470 NE. I fired these off yesterday, Memorial Day, as a salute to all the fallen men and women of the USA, at least I was thinking of them and wearing Col. Charles E. Shelton's POW/MIA bracelet while I was doing it. It is a "Best Load" no doubt, and fitting for the salute.

This load is so special that it deserves a name, like "The Jack O'Connor .416 Rigby Load: 105 grains of H4831."

"The George Hoffman .470 Nitro Express Load: 110 grains of H4831SC Extreme."

I shot deliberately, slowly, savoring each gentle 60 ft-lb shove on my shoulder. I shot from the bench, sitting upright with elbows on sand bags, and offhand gripping the barrels, back of hand resting on sand bags piled high. The gun touched only my hands and shoulder.

It took 90 minutes to fire 16 shots. The gun was left uncleaned from the last session, having only had 10 rounds through each barrel since the last cleaning. This time, the barrels did not get too hot to hold. A new target was put up after each four shots.

My Merkel sights were touched up with my artiste brushes: The front sight painted white with auto body touchup paint, a square white patridge (ptarmigan in winter plumage instead of silver patridge hiding in a pear tree) ... and the fine line leading up to the tiny square notch of the rear was filled with finest gold enamel with my "single bristle" brush tip.

76 F degrees balmy.

BELL brass.
GM215M primer.
H4831SC Extreme powder.
110.0 grains with softs.
109.0 grains with solids.
3/16" thick foam AC filter disc cut with chamfer sharpened 50BMG brass cookie cutter: in all loads.

This little disc eliminates all shake of powder in the cartridge and it seems to uniform and raise the velocities just a little.

4 shots of each load were shot for 50 yard group, through the chronograph, RLRL.

A.
Trophy Bonded Sledge Hammer 500 grain solid, the originals made by Jack Carter, brass/bronze jacket and lead core, 0.474" shank diameter, 1.325" bullet length, crimped, COL 3.883":
Ave. vel. = 2138 fps
ES = 15 fps
Group = 0.972" center-to-center, center of group ~1/2" right and about ~1/4" low

B.
GSC FN 500 grain monometal copper moly coated solid, 0.474" driving band diameter, 0.466" inter-band shank diameter, 1.393" bullet length, crimped, COL 3.962":
Ave. vel. = 2116 fps
ES = 34 fps
Group = 0.978", windage ~1/8" right, elevation ~1/3" low

C.
Barnes Original RNSP, copper jacket, lead core, not bonded, 0.475" shank diameter (fattest of all by .001"), 1.255" bullet length, not crimped/no cannelure, COL = 3.871":
Ave. vel. = 2166 fps
ES = 14 fps
Group = 1.110", elevation dead on, windage 3/4" right

D.
Woodleigh Weldcore 500 grain RNSP, bonded lead core copper jacket, 0.474" shank diameter, 1.252" bullet length, crimped, COL 3.837":
Ave. vel. = 2153 fps
ES = 22 fps
100 meter leaf was up for first shot, which went about 1.5" high and 1/2" to left ... this was the first group I fired, having been admiring the sights beforehand and having forgotten to fold down the long leaf ... ... so the remainder of the group was just 3 shots with the 50 meter leaf:
1.180", ~1/2" low and ~1/2" to right of point of aim, good enough

So they all shot well enough.

The George Hoffman .470 NE load: H4831SC Extreme 109 grains with solids and 110 grains with softs.

All I need to do is hold 2.5 to 3 feet high at 300 yards to ring the gong, depending on the load and the leaf. Not much difference amongst all four loads.

I have the targets framed. Photos to follow, if the wife or son can get them on the computer. But right now, they have run off to Florida, to visit her mother, and I am home alone, goofing off on AR.COM. Anything to stay away from Florida!!!

RIP:

Very good shooting. I know now you will have convinced some other 470 NE shooters to the benefit of H4831sc. At least in the Merkels, given different bullets types you and I have tested, all seem to shoot well with that load. Nice to have something that works for different bullet types!

Looking forward to seeing your pics...

What COL are you using for the GSC Bullets?

RIP's post above notes 3.962" COL on GS bullet

Tomorrow I will see if I can find a scanner that works, to put the targets on disk, then I can post them.

Double rifle shooters: 50 yard targets shot with 50 meter leaf (except for one shot with 100 meter leaf on the third target below). Analyze these, please.

Sheeeiittttt, RIP, that dog will hunt!!!

RIP:

Very well done! Looks like you covered all the bases...Softs and Solids.

However, if you ever get the urge to try the North Fork Cup Points they will fit nicely in your grouping and take care of everthing else you could ever want in a 470 NE! Can I suggest 110 grains of H4831sc!

KMuleinAK,
Buy a donkey.

jjs,
I will get on the telephone right now, to Mike Brady. I only have 45 of the original Jack Carter TBSH solids left, and only 40 of the GSC FN's, with no realistic hopes of getting anymore of either, bar a miracle.

The Woodleigh Weldcore is a good RNSP, tough and accurate.

The Barnes Original is not available anymore, but I have 300 of those stockpiled, for plinking and varmints. Should be good for barking squirrels, or head shots on rabbits.

I have lots of North Forks in .423 and .458, and am looking to expand my collection next into .475 (or is that .474?) caliber.

I'll get behind you in line for the Cup Points.

Then there is the Bridger ...

RIP:

I have the Woodleigh Softs and going to use them of Whitetails this year!

As far as Solids the Barnes Banded (.474) will work and should fit in your grouping very well, however, last time a called Barnes (about 3 weeks ago, only place you can get them now...but I hear Federal may be testing them for Factory Loading along with the .474 TSX) they were out of stock awaiting another production run.

I have tested the .474, 500 grain TSX and looks like they will require a bit more powder than 110grains to regulate well...left barrel flies high and left of the right.

I spoke with Mike about 3 weeks ago and he was out of stock on FN and Cup Points for the 470. I hope he runs more soon...I am saving my last box of 50 for Cape Buff this July. North Forks mic .475+/-. That may be the reason I am getting highest velocity with North Forks..nominal 2170fps with 110 grain loading.

Possibly Ray Atkinson is hoarding the 470 Cup Points? Ray, please share!!!!

Regards, jjs

jjs,
Mike Brady says that he has been making the Cup Point and Flat Point bullets in .475" diameter (driving bands) but he is considering .474" diameter.

I vote for .474" diameter too. This would match the original TBSH and the GSC FN.

Pressures and velocities might drop a bit for the .474" versus the .475", for the same powder charge, but a grain or two more powder would get it back.

RIP:

I thought I would give Mike another push on the 470 Cup Points...just got off the phone with him.

Back a few months ago, before I ordered, I spoke with him about the bullets including size, etc. Mike mentioned the bullets were .475+/- that diameter was settled upon based on Mike's discussion with Butch Searcy.

I think Mike is now leaning towards .474 with a couple added bands. The .474 may be more user friendly for vintage DR while the additional bands will allow for more flexibility in seating depth.

500grains (if you are listening) I mentioned to Mike all the discussion about use of mono-metals vs conventional Solids,etc. He spoke about a 470 barrel but hard to justify the cost. I mentioned a .458" barrel as an alternative (ie 450NE, 450#2, etc) that had dual use..so possibly Mike may go this route and do some real testing on his bullets vs others with regards to pressure, etc...that may help put the case to rest.

Mike Brady is a great guy to talk with...I always enjoy the discussion...

jjs,
Cellphones are handy. Thanks, jjs.

The North Fork Cup Point and Flat Point might be the only two bullets needed in a .470 NE, aye.

For buffalo, surely the Cup Point will do it all. If elephant are on the agenda, the Flat Point surely applies.

I'll buy that.

The George Hoffman Memorial Load rings the 300 yard gong quite nicely.

18" square 3/4" thick steel plate at 300 yards:

Use Merkel 50 meter leaf.

With right barrel hold 3 feet above center of gong and 1 foot to right of center of gong.

With left barrel hold 3 feet high and 1 foot left.

Both barrels will hit near center of gong.

This Merkel is still best used from zero to 100 yards, but if I ever had to make a "Hail Mary" shot at 300 yards with it, that is how I would hold.

The effect of two quick shots at 40 yards is also very impressive in how quickly it makes that big plate of steel move. Broke loose from its chains and went tumbling.

And an afterthought:

I need to put up a 4 feet by 4 feet panel of plywood or cardboard at 300 yards, hold sight on the center of the top edge of it, and shoot for group to see just what my exact Kentucky Windage and Tennessee Elevation is for this load: Barnes Original 500 grain soft point at 2166 fps.

I doubt that group will fit on the scanner.

Maybe my true hold over and windage will be closer to 30" and 6" (right and left). It will be academic:

If my rifle crosses at 50 meters and is then about 1" spread laterally at 100 meters ... ... then it ought to be 5" spread at 300 meters, eh?

Of course an H&H double rifle shoots the same group at 50 meters and 300 meters, and parallel to infinity, eh?