I am posting this in Big Bores rather than African Hunting because I do not wish to imply that hunting dangerous game with a Marlin is appropriate or safe.
However, apostles of the low velocity cast bullet religion, like a certain vocal commercial reloader of cast lead, will probably appreciate that Marlin is now offering its lever action Wal Mart gun in both 480 Ruger and 475 Linebaugh. Follow link for more details.
That is great NEWS for Marlin fans!! I am asking Marlin fans... what is the magical number for the 475LB 440 grain? As in... what magical low number for velocity should a guy load his at? I keep loading my 500 N.E. slower and slower, but it just keeps penetrating less and less... I think it might spike up shortly though.
Posts: 2045 | Location: West most midwestern town. | Registered: 13 June 2001
I disagree Smallfry .I think it is good idea. They arent meant to be a big bore buffalo gun ,but I would sure like one in 480 or 475 LB to use as an up close pig gun. I have a 44 mag marlin now but would like to trade up to one of these later on.
cr500, you are disgreing with the wrong person. I could careless if it exists or not. I guess I shouldnt say that... if it attracts more shooters to our sport, then kudos to Marlin.
Posts: 2045 | Location: West most midwestern town. | Registered: 13 June 2001
you can rea, one of these out to .475 Alaskan, which is just the 45/70 case straightened out to accept the larger bullet. It will give slightly better velocity due to increased expansion ratio.
Posts: 7505 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002
I think Marlin has their head up their backside. Another lever gun almost ballisticly identical to many others already available. BIG DEAL ! Winchester had the same brain Fart of a idea last year and there were not enough Distributor orders to put the thing into production after cataloging it ! Marlin needs to clean up their act and come out with a REAL big bore. Like the 50 Alaskan or the 510 Kodiak express. Their are even a few 416 Wildcats that would be PERFECT for lever guns and would easily make the cut for legal African DG hunting. Thats just my opinion. Your mileage may vary !
It is a step forward but Marlin should have done a better job chambering a new cartridge with their lever guns. The 336 is basically a long action and to chamber it with a short pistol cartridge shows that they have done a half assed job. They should have designed a new action scaled specifically for the big bore pistol cartridges, especially with the new 500 S&W. With that said, it is still encouraging to see a new product from an old company. Thanks.
Quote: I am posting this in Big Bores rather than African Hunting because I do not wish to imply that hunting dangerous game with a Marlin is appropriate or safe.
However, apostles of the low velocity cast bullet religion, like a certain vocal commercial reloader of cast lead, will probably appreciate that Marlin is now offering its lever action Wal Mart gun in both 480 Ruger and 475 Linebaugh. Follow link for more details.
Quote: I disagree Smallfry .I think it is good idea. They arent meant to be a big bore buffalo gun ,but I would sure like one in 480 or 475 LB to use as an up close pig gun. I have a 44 mag marlin now but would like to trade up to one of these later on.
When I read the post last night, I thought the same thing. If I had a .480 Ruger or a .475LB, I would be tickled to death over the new offering. I think of them sort of like saddle guns: something that you would have around chambered for what you have on you giving you a little more "reach", and a little more punch, than your handgun...a little more accuracy too. At that, I always thought it a little silly to have more than two or three rounds in the mag for a major power level rifle, except for DGRs for obvious reasons. I want a nitro express, but I want it in a double or a single, and for a totally different purpose.
The ideal purpose for this would be hogs (no bag limit) or bear defense for one who already has a handgun so chambered. For now, I am happy with my Trapper in .45 Colt. I do have my Ruger No3 for more serious shots.
Posts: 381 | Location: Kiowa, AL | Registered: 08 April 2003
Well for one thing it would be a LEGAL DG gun in Africa Vs using the 45-70 on High Fence operations. In either event it would be something new Vs another ho hum same old ballistic range from Marlin. Heck even a 50-110-450 would be a nice change.
I ussually don't get involved in these discussion so please be gentle.
I have thought of having a 50 Alaskan or a 50-110 built. But I thought of the external ballistics issue and concluded it would not out do the 45-70 by enough to warrant the exspense.
I can't argue about the 45-70 being legal in Africa unless it is on a high fence operation as I am not familiar enough with the African Game laws. You got me there. However, I have been told by many African hunters that most of Africa is now high fenced hunting!
Respectfully
Mark
Posts: 370 | Location: Anchor Point, Alaska | Registered: 03 July 2002
Quote: However, I have been told by many African hunters that most of Africa is now high fenced hunting!
Mark
That's very true of the Republic of South Africa, and somewhat true of Namibia, but not true in Tanzania, Mozambique, Zambia, Ethiopia, Benin, Burkina Faso, or most of Zimbabwe.
George
Posts: 14623 | Location: San Antonio, TX | Registered: 22 May 2001
I am really not trying to walk down the 45-70 trail here. I would just like to see something a little different offered from Marlin. Their are so many great choices I just do not understand why they keep coming out with all of the different variants that are virtually identical. Why bother with a 480 Ruger or a 475 linbaugh when you have the 44 Mag ? As others have mentioned much of RSA might be fenced but it is not all game proof fence and their are certainly other countries with more "free range". What I would really like to see is a 416 Barnes or even a 416-284 McPherson
I get a big enough jump to justify the .50. I get 1750fps from my 22" 45/70 with a 400 grain bullet. I get 1800fps from my 26" .50 Alaskan with a 535 grain woodleigh with the nose flattened to run through the magazine safely. Plus you have the extra frontal area of the 50!!
Posts: 5725 | Location: Ohio | Registered: 02 April 2003
I agree with you about the 480/475. I also agree with you about the 416 diameter. That would be a better idea in my humble opinion vs the 50's. The 416 would certainly out perform the 50's on external balistics.
George
Thanks for the info on African hunting. I am currently looking into a Buf hunt and will review some in those areas.
I will probably take my Custom 460 Weatherby.
Buckeye
Those ballistics are ok. However, out of my 1895 guide gun I am getting 2300fps with the Nosler Partition, and I can get 1850 fps with a 460gr CP bullet. And no this is not with excessive pressure. I did not get pressure signs with the 460gr CP bullet until I topped 1900fps. At 1850fps this bullet will shoot under an inch consistantly.
Regarding frontal area. I believe I would rather have sectional density than frontal area. The 50' are to much like shooting a ball. I do like frontal area. But I would rather have a happy medium of both frontal area and sectional density. Thats whate I like about the 45's. But Chuckwagon idea of a 416 would not be a bad idea for Marlin. But, then I wonder could it out do a hot loaded 35 by enough to warrant it. Again, this is just my humble opinion and thank you allowing me to express it.
Respectfully
Mark
Posts: 370 | Location: Anchor Point, Alaska | Registered: 03 July 2002
those the deride this one jsut don't understand this one...
it's the largest rifle AND PISTOL combo to date.. I do not consider the BFR in 45/70-450 marlin to be "contenders" as they are monsters.
Would be a great pack gun, which it's designed for... a 4" ruger on your hip and this in the rifle scabbard.... 100 rounds in the bags and the guns loaded.. deer, hogs, bear, mountain lions... it's PERFECT...
more levels at or above the 444 marlin, in the rifle, and somewhat lower in the pistol...
I do not understant why Ruger does not chamber a .480 or .454 Super Blackhawk. It seems to me they are losing many possible sales to people who do not want to have to have one built for them, and think the Super Redhawk is just a damn ugly gun.
The .500S&W should make a good lever gun cartridge aswell.
The 35 Remington pushes a 200 grainer around 2100 fps with a ME of 1950. The 35 Wheelin pushes a 250 grainer. The 416 Barnes will push 400 Gr at 2250 fps with a ME of 4200 ! Compare that to the 1850 of the best 45-70 loads. A nice jump. I still dont get the 480 Ruger. I just miss the concept or why it is any better or different than what is out there already. The only benefit I see is to those with side arms of the same caliber. I expect the reason we keep seeing the same old from Marlin is their is no real work involved in rechambering. By the time we get to the 416 50 Alaskan or 500 S&W We need a new stronger action. Wild West Guns is now building their own actions for the 500 S&W
KB, like i said in my first post.. i think the reason i don't have a 480 ruger (i got my vaquero about the same time the 480 came out) is that I HATE the redhawk... it's huge, it's F U G L Y and I can't shoot it one handed and expect to hit a 2x2' target at 50 yards... my varquero I can just POINT and hit the same targer.
if 454 cas. can be put into blackhawks, and 475s can be, albeit it's a 5 shot deal, I'ld think a rework of a blackhawk would be nice....
I do wish they would come out with another 32-20. I also am a fan of the 218 Bee in a lever gun. Winchester has a special edition in 25-35 this year but it is pricey and certainly not made in the USA
I ussually don't get involved in these discussion so please be gentle.
I am not familiar enough with the African Game laws. You got me there. However, I have been told by many African hunters that most of Africa is now high fenced hunting! Respectfully Mark
You have been told a lie, by many African hunters, if they told you most of Africa is now high fenced! Only RSA, and to some extent, Namibia, have high fence hunting to amount to anything! Botswana, Tanzania, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Mozambique, all have all the traditional bush hunting you can afford to take part in! Name your game, put up your money, and you will not see a fence anyplace but around a park,or your camp, in any one of those very large countries! A billionaire could go broke in those countries, on one continous hunt, without ever encountering a fence!
Posts: 14634 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: 08 June 2000
For gods sake would they just make us the bloody 50 Alaskan and be doen with it !!!
Yeah it's good there making thuis I suppose, it will be like buying a .458 winnie and making a lott out of it, I would get one and get the 45/70 blown straight to .475 (whats the name of that caliber again anyone ??) butt he crowd is screaming for the .50 Alaskan......c'mon Marlin give the people what they want
Posts: 7505 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002
If Marlin wants to make a genuine big bore lever gun, then they should scale up their action and offer them in .500 NE, .577 NE and .600 NE. I wouldn't buy one because I don't like levers, but at least Marlin would be making a lever suitable for dangerous game.
Posts: 18352 | Location: Salt Lake City, Utah USA | Registered: 20 April 2002
A 50 Alaskan IS totally suitable for DG and within the Legal limits. Once ANY caliber meets the requirements of the law it is strictly a matter of personal preferance. I see some folks here even advocate the 375 H&H on Whitetails !
Well I'm a lever action fan in a big way total of 11 rifles so far All I want to see is a factory 50 cal before I hit 50 the way marlin is going I'll be 60 and geting too old to see through peep sights .
Posts: 115 | Location: Hills of North Qld | Registered: 30 January 2004
I know there not good for DG but for roo's & pigs mate there alright....and it just would be for fun. I do however respectfully agree with you that hey should also scale up there action and offer it in say .600 or .700 Nitro
Posts: 7505 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002
now that would be a site a 18" ported barrel 700 nitro marlin lever action with 1000 grain flat nose bullets just think it make one hell of a hog stopper as a saddle gun.
Posts: 2095 | Location: B.C | Registered: 31 January 2002
About the 50 Alaskan, that is a hitter. I would say it would handle about anything around with the right handloads. The 50AK is as large as Marlin could go do to the length of its action so any talk about anything bigger would not really be possible, maybe if custom made by a very good gunsmith. I still say a Marlin in a 50AK would be a winner, I own a win 86 50-110, but if Marlin came out with a 50 AK I would get one. By the way I loaded a 525 grain bullet to around 2060fps in a 50 AK Marlin that is fairly strong .And Kodiak Bullets sell 500 grain loads in 50ak, I believe to around 2050 out of a 18 inch barrel,that is no light weight on anything,I am with PC Kev
Posts: 1002 | Location: ALASKA, USA | Registered: 22 May 2002
I have to correct myself, Wild West Guns sell loaded ammo for the 50 AK. It has 450 grains going 2050 out of a 18 inch barrel, I still know one can handload even faster, but that still is nice, over 4200 fps at the muzzel. Kev
Posts: 1002 | Location: ALASKA, USA | Registered: 22 May 2002
I would rather have Winchester (USRAC) come out with an American made M1886 in 50-110 (50 Express) than see a Marlin in 50 AK. If Marlin did introduce and actually market a 50 Alaska though, I know I would just have to have one!
Scott
Posts: 1662 | Location: USA | Registered: 27 November 2003
Hey Folks! Just to let you know, Doug Turnbull is making 50-110 and 50 AK's on old and new 1886's. http://turnbullrestoration.com/ Lots of greenbacks, though! LeRoy.
Winchester is making a 25-35??? I have not heard this but I want one, tell me more?? Who can I contact for one.
A 50 cal. 535 gr. bullet at 2000 FPS, Kev, now you have a Cape Buffalo Rifle...I cannot imagine the recoil of such a gun, my .470 hammers the hell out of me..Maybe I'm getting old...
Posts: 42226 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000
MR. Atkinson, you are sure right. I love levers, but they do hit hard as far as recoil. I guess the way the stocks are designed,I know my 50-110 recoils.I am working on Woodeighs bullets, I have 600 grain PPSP and have flatten down the nose and there weight is now around 560 grains. I will make a new cannelure,cannelure tool from corbin bullet , and try them out, I think I will get to 2150fps with them, but talk is cheap I have to get there,I still will bring my 416 rigby with me,kev
Posts: 1002 | Location: ALASKA, USA | Registered: 22 May 2002
Hey Ray, since you can buy one of those new fangled fancy Winchesters let me know if you want to part with one of the REAL 25-35's I would love to find a SRC variant either 25-35 or 38-55.
.
