I was at the range today, I had a few different Rifles with one of them being my .416 Rem. A buddy of mine who is hoping to do a Cape buff hunt with me in 2010 showed up to do a little shooting himself. I could see he was itchin' to shoot the .416 (biggest he ever shot was a .375 he had a few years ago)so I told him to grab it and give it a few goes.
Long story short he shot it 1/2 dozen times or so.
He needs a DG Gun for Africa, and doesnt really want another .375
He thinks the .416 is the maximum recoil or maybe a little more than he would like for his own Rifle.

His question was what Cartridge (besides a .375) gives .416 Rem. type energy with out quite so much recoil? He asked me about the other .416's, and the .404 Jefferey, having no experience shooting these, I have no idea what the recoil would be like on them.

Also, what Stock design would give the least amount of felt recoil? He kinda wants to build a Rifle so I figured I would shoot these questions out here to all you experienced folk.
Suggestions?

Thanx.

One thing your friend should understand is that in the field recoil is never felt. There is a big difference on the range. Once he is staring down the barrel at a Cape Buffalo, he will not be aware of or worried about the recoil and after the shot I pretty much guarantee he will be able to remember feeling it.

So I think your buddy just needs a little more range time with the .416 to get comfortable with it.

If you are shooting handloads I would ask have you chrony'd those loads you were shooting? If they are handloads you can simply load them down a bit, to help "ease" your friend into the .416.

Oops... I meant he will not remember feeling the recoil...

I agree 100% about noticing or remembering "Felt recoil" in the field....but never the less its there, and your sub consciuos(sp?) mind knows it. I would relate what your mind remembers, to what is generally very shoddy marksmanship from the typical jo-schmo you see at the range and in the Hunting fields.

That beiing said, my friend shoots hundreds of rounds a year, and is a very good shot. Its not that he cant handle the recoil, its just he doesnt really care for the level that comes with a .416 Rem.

And yes I chrony'ed them. 10 shot string avg. was about 2550fps. or so. According to my barnes manual, that is a pretty mild load with 350's.

I don't have a 416 Remington, but I do have a 416 Rigby and a 404 Jeffery. The Rigby is a CZ, the 404 is on a Model 70 action. I can't really feel any difference when same weight bullets are loaded to the same velocity, which is of course logical. A 404 loaded to the traditional 2150 to 2250 fps with a 400 grain bullet feels like a 375 H&H to me. If I load it to 2350 fps it feels like a 416 Rigby. Rifle weight and stock fit will probably make the difference in how it really feels.

As I recall, my friend's .416 Rigby kicked the peewads out of me but, in chronographing my .404 Jeffrey with 400 gr. bullets at 2400+ fps didn't feel quite the same. I know that it should be the same but, I fired 60 rounds of the .404 on one range session and wouldn't be able to do that with the Rigby. I was going to recommend the .404 to cmfic1.

416 Taylor may be an option.... But personally I think if he can shoot a 375 well and he shoots fairly regularly, he could certainly learn to shoot one of the 416's (Rigby, Remington) with some range time and maybe shooting lighter loads at first or wearing a PAST shield at the range. He should try to shoot a few different 416 rifles to see if one fits him better then others (or get a stock custom fit). Like has been said, field recoil is very different from range recoil.

But really, a 375 H&H with good shot placement will kill anything on earth so either way, he is good. Just a matter of which way he wants to go with it.

Thanx for the replies guys. I'll hash this stuff out with him. In the end he already knows he can shoot (and likes the H+H) its just he was wanting to try someting a little more exotic I think.

Any recommendations as to Stock design? (for lowest possible felt recoil) For the avg. guy which would be the more preferable design, & what makers would you recommend? All my Stocks are Bansner Hi-Tech. So I dont have much for making comparisons.

Thanx.

http://knoxx.com/NewStyleKnoxx/Products/RifleCompstock.htm

I guess you could look into one of these type for "lowest possible" recoil. The video on them is kind of interesting they have.
Good luck.

Thats a pretty wild Stock there Unit5A, but my buddy isnt much into gimmicks, he frowned when I told him I had a Mercury recoil Suppressor in my Rifle. He didnt know it was in there, and it really helps balance the Rifle nicely. Might be able to convince him to get one in his Rifle when he gets it built...but not sure.

quote:

Originally posted by cmfic1:
Thats a pretty wild Stock there Unit5A, but my buddy isnt much into gimmicks, he frowned when I told him I had a Mercury recoil Suppressor in my Rifle. He didnt know it was in there, and it really helps balance the Rifle nicely. Might be able to convince him to get one in his Rifle when he gets it built...but not sure.

No problem, hee hee. You know, I bet when rubber recoil pads came out, people thought them gimmicks too. Often today's "gimmicks", turn into tomorrow's norm though..
Maybe he should just get the heaviest stock he can find then?
Take care.

Take the good ol' .375H&H, bacause with bigger cannons the flinch form the target range will follow you to the game range. That's bad!
PS. One should be happy because with quality bullets available today nothing bigger is really needed.

quote:

Originally posted by cmfic1:
His question was what Cartridge (besides a .375) gives .416 Rem. type energy with out quite so much recoil?

Out in the bush, he will be shooting any buff freehand or off shooting sticks. Felt recoil will be much less standing upright rather than hunched over a shooting benchrest. He should be practicing the same way. But I agree with all above who said he'll never feel the kick once he's concentrating on mr. black death.

No matter what scenario, the laws of physics still apply. To lower recoil you need a (1) heavier rifle, (2) lighter bullet, or (3) lighter weight powder charge. Or (4) a muzzle break. All else being equal, a well-fitted stock with minimum drop at heel will give less felt recoil.

Perhaps your buddy just needs to cowboy up.