I have searched the archives of AR and have come up empty for the .411 KDF. Does such a cartridge exist or is my memory failing? Cobalt

Cobalt, maybe you are looking for a 411JDJ! If so, I have a Contender with a 16.25" bull barrel, so chambered, but it has only been test fired by the smith, and I have never shot it at all. It took so long the get it made, I lost interest in it, and went on with something else. I'm sure you know it is a 444 necked to .411 But I have no loads for it!

It definately exists. I just did a Google search and came up with about a dozen hits. One article compared it to the .416 Taylor.

I seem to recall reading something by Ken Waters about it. If memory serves, it may be a necked uo .300 Win Mag. Then again, maybe not!

Les Bowman did a .411 based on the .458 WinMag necked down in 1962. P.O. Ackley built it and it is in his book.

KDF did the 411 KDF about 1985. It too is the 2.5" .458 necked down.

A writer for GUNS magazine did one based on the 300 WinMag necked up to .411 in the 1980's too, I think he called it the 411 Express. Can't recall the name of the originator ... sometimer's ... help me out here ...

And then there is the 411 JDJ ...

DaggaRon,

I believe you are speaking about the .425 express. Writer Cameron Hopkins came up with this round by necking the .300 Win Mag up to use .423" bullets. A-Square makes, or made, properly headstamped brass.

Thanks, David. That's it. I was confused on the last one. 425 Express and Cameron Hopkins it was.

Thanks Guys,
What about a 375 UM case shortened to 2.6in and necked to accept .411 or .423 bullets. This should function in a standard length M70 action and give me a little more case capacity than the rounds built on a .458Win size case. Is there enough meat on the bolt face to open up to UM diameter? I have a 50's vintage M70 action that I would like to build something different on. Cobalt

Cobalt,
Craig Boddington's "Safari Rifles" mentions the .411 KDF in the chapter on big bore wildcats. I shall dig the info up and mail it to you by tomorrow.
Good shooting!

Cobalt,
Just checked and Boddington says just what the expert on our forum, Dagga Ron has explained. The only thing he adds is that being .411 in dia the KDF round has a slight (but insignificant) advantage in sectional density over the various .416s.
Do any of the members on this forum have a .411 KDF? Boddington was all praise for the rifles' superb accuracy.
Good shooting.

I've necked a 300 Ultra up to .411.

It works quite well. Z-hat made my dies for me as well as coming up with some starting loads for 300 350 and 400 grain bullets. Have used 41 pistol bullets at 2900 fps for practice. The 300 grain North forks at 2550 fps are quite accurate staying under an inch.

RussT,
Did you use the full length case? I want to use my std length pre-64 M70 action so would like to shorten the case to 2.6in. Still haven't decided on .411, .416 or .423. Am leaning towards .411 as I already have a .416REM. Thanks, Bob

Cobalt,

Any concerns about finding bullets? I don't recall seeing much in .411 -- of course I haven't looked much either.

I think a 45 on that case (shortened) would be more interesting. Then I could borrow your custom reamer later too.

Todd

I used the full length case and opened up a mauser action.

With regard to bullets, the North Fork 325 grain works well for anything around here and Swift and Barnes do 400 grain bullets in a couple of weights.
While some have an aversion to Hawk, they also do .411's with various weight jackets.

Todd,
Might as well go with the .45. I have a .460WM, a .458 WIN. Wonder how much I would have to set the bbl back on the M70 to rechamber our new 'cat? Cases should be about the same length. I don't think the action would accomodate a Lott. Cobalt

There has been lots of discussion about whether the 404 case (what UM is based on) provides a sufficient shoulder when necked up to .45 caliber. There were many posts on this subject in this forumn, and you should do some searches.

What you are basically describing is a 450 G&A or a 450 Vincent short, with a rebated rim. Case capacity is on par with a 458 lott / 450 Ackley. I debated doing something similar with the 416 Howell to create the body of the case, then going back with a necker/throater to bring it up to 45. After I looked into the cost of custom dies, and looked at the little shoulder that would result, I decided what I'd prefer would be another 458 Lott.