Just curious, It seems most of the DG hunters are unendeavored with the 460 weatherby, but there all a lot of them that like the 458 lott. The lott with 500 gr. bullet doing about 2300 & the 460 with 500 gr. doing about 2600. Why not the 460? If it is going to fast? if so why not download it? Doesn't the 460 do anything the lott will & better? I shoot a 460 but have not shot any DG with it, but can testify the recoil is not as bad as many would have you believe. No axe to grind just curious as to your opinions. Thanks for your time. By the way I have a CZ 458 lott ordered & should be here with in a week.

Regards Mike

Used a 460 Wby with 500 grain Swifts a few years ago in Africa. Took an eland with it.

Have also used a 458 Lott.

The 460 Wby can do everything the Lott can do at lower pressure. The Wby can be loaded to any velocity from 458 Win Mag factory up to the 460 Wby factory.

The 460 Wby can be loaded with 600 grain bullets at Lott 500 grain velocities.

The Lott will typically hold one more in the magazine.

Hammer

I think once you move away from the 460's painful original ballistics the next problem in the eyes of the gentlemen hunters is the action it usually comes in, followed by the case shape etc.



Mostly is the fact something with Weatherby after the calibre makes us feel like "wealthy, western, Cadillac owning,camera snapping Tourists in Africa"(which we are) whereas something with Lott or Rigby after the 450 number makes us feel more local, understated and 'English' even.



Despite the fact the 460 is older than almost all the other 458 bolts...



Karl.

The other problem with the 460 is that it had too slow of a twist, resulting in lousy penetration notwithstanding its high velocity.

With the correct twist, and keeping velocity and pressure to a reasonable level, the 460 wby as a cartridge is just fine.

In my opinion....most critics of the 460 have never actually chronographed 460 Factory ammo.....2500 f/s sees it right out, mostly high 2400s....it is typical Wby factory ammo, that is, about 100 f/s below what a reloader will get with top loads. I have chronographed 460 ammo from 1973 to about the mid 1990s.

In another thread on this site, which I think was the Handloading forum, we have someone criticising 300 Wby ammo because it is loaded to 3350 f/s. Fucking amazing. I have never chronographed 300 Wby ammo at over 3180 f/s and I have chronographed 300 Wby ammo since the early 1970s...Ohler 10 with paper screens!!! Typical Wby ammo...about 100 f/s below what can be easily done with loads. I think our friend on the 300 Wby confused early Wby claims with reality.....but decided to go with non reality to support his case.

378 ammo chronographs at 3050 to 3080 with 270 grainers....again, about 100 f/s below what top loads will give.

458 Lott Vs 460

The 458 Lott is much cheaper to be involved with....

Mike

Some folks, me included, just don't care for Weatherby rifles.

With me it is the stock I don't care for.But I don't like that kind of stock on anything.Neighbors 460 shoots fine,reloading works great, lugs are ok and
are all bearing good, but damn stock........... Ed.

Mike,

I am IMPRESSED!

Your chrony and mine agree. When I owned a 460WM (about 10 years ago now) I only got 2480 - 2530 out of the factory ammo. With hand loads I could get up to 2570, but the bolt needed assistance from a rubber mallet.

You know, knowing little facts like these makes spotting the BS artists so much easier, doesn't it!

Wait till people find out the 416 Rigby is a more efficient design than the 416 Weatherby and you can actually meet or exceed the 416 Weatherby with the 416 Rigby due to the better burn efficiency that the Rigby has. Oops I may have let the cat out of the bag.

Scott

ScottS,
Why is that, since the 416 Rigby is nothing more than a beltless 416 Weatherby...I used to make 416 Rigby brass by turning off the belts of the 416 Wby.

I shot George Hoffmans 460 wby caliber Mauser/M-70 design rifle for awhile and found that by loading it down, it recoiled less than any 45 cal. big bore I have shot and operated at extremely mild pressure..It kicked about like a 375 was my take on it....It was loaded with 500 gr. bullets at 2250 FPS.

George sang its praises loudly on its game killing abilities and he probably had shot a bit more game with that caliber than anyone else I know..the rifle was the no. 1 presentation rifle from Don Allens outfit....

I was impressed with the caliber and a bit surprised...

I am not a fan of Weatherby rifles for myself, but they have certainly served with honor over the years..

Ray,

Technically speaking, the lower pressure loads, for the same muzzle velocity / bullet weight combination, produce less felt recoil since the recoil force is reduced slightly. Personally, though I think this is splitting hairs, abd I have not noticed it. Generally speaking the heavier bullets kick harder than the lighter bullets, regardless of caliber.

The 416 Weatherby is NOT merely a belted 416 Rigby. The Rigby has a slightly (0.007") larger base diameter and ~ 0.014" more body taper per side. The shoulder diameter of the Rigby is 0.02" less than the Weatherby.

The case capacity of the 416 Rigby is ~ 128.5 gr of water
The case capacity of the 416 Weatherby is ~ 134 gr of water.

The added 5.5 grains of case capacity is really insignificant, and somewhat of a hinderance. The burn characteristics of the powders, appropriate for these cases, are more optimum for the Rigby's expansion ratio, than they are for the Weatherby's. What this means is the Rigby can burn the same powders slightly faster than the Weatherby, which allows the Rigby to make up for (and in some cases surpass) the 5.5 grain capacity advantage of the Weatherby. Regardless, both cartridges are capable of destroying the vast majority of projectiles in their caliber.

Clear as mud?

Scott