I am doing alot of offhand open sight shooting lately and discovering new things and finding answers to questions I've had previously.Once you get the rifle to shoot tight groups,every day,off the bench,at the distance you want to practice shooting offhand,your rifle is ready.You check your rifles accuracy off the bench just before you shoot offhand,every time and you have the same POI and the same inch or half inch group.Once you stand up and shoot,even when you start slowly and take all the time in the world to hit bullseye at only 50yds,you miss at times a whole foot to the left.You don't understand what is happening.You know you can hit a coke can out to 300yds offhand with a scoped 308,you've done it many times over the years.You shoot another group off the bench and it is tight again and right where you hit last time.You know you are not flinching because you have learned to deal with the recoil and you don't feel a thing.Changing the spot on your shoulder which you use to place the butt so that you can relieve the pain brought from recoil taught you that there is another or a second spot on your shoulder on which to place the butt.In the past you noticed that you shoot better with the butt placed there.Another 4 shot string and you are wide again and again.Suddenly you realize that you are placing the butt on the spot on your shoulder that always gave poor results but still are not convinced that placing the butt on the second spot-the one where you get completely behind the rifle and is closer to your chest is going to make any difference.After changing the spot and shooting 5 strings of 4 they are all in the bullseye.You conclude that the angle at which you hold an open sight rifle,even though the beed is always in the center of the leaf sight,makes a big difference as to where yor bullet will strike at as little as 50yds.[URL= ]50yd offhand target 458lott[/URL] It's not a bad target.I had to wait an hour idle in the cold before I got a chance to shoot.I was so cold that my hands where shaking and I couldn't get the rounds,with my fingers, out of my ammo box.My shooting was getting more accurate as I warmed up.

It's hard to answer your question because most of my shooting has either been test loads, sighting-in or at animals.

However, even with scoped rifles I noticed sometimes different people would shoot groups to different POI. So I've assumed that one sights in to their 'own style' whatever that be.

Have you tried duplicating you results by comparing shooting sticks and a bench?

If you mean that consistency of hold is the key to accurate offhand shooting, I agree.

For me, and most people, I would think, there is a natural pocket in the shoulder where the rifle butt wants to go. If the rifle fits properly, that is.

There's only one "sweet spot" and it's natural to mount the rifle so that it comes to rest there.

Same with shotguns.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
If you mean that consistency of hold is the key to accurate offhand shooting, I agree.

For me, and most people, I would think, there is a natural pocket in the shoulder where the rifle butt wants to go. If the rifle fits properly, that is.

There's only one "sweet spot" and it's natural to mount the rifle so that it comes to rest there.

Same with shotguns.

I agree that there is a natural pocket and that's the one I've always used.This natural pocket is the one that doesn't work when shooting open sighted big bores offhand,IMO.As for shotguns,this is an entirely different experience,IMO.With a shotgun,your sight is aligned with the use of the long barrel or a rib and you have only the sight in the muzzle end to focus on.

If that's true for you, then I would suggest that your open-sighted big bore rifles don't fit you properly.

You shouldn't have to wrestle with a rifle in order get off an accurate shot. Of course, a rifle does need to be aimed, but a well-fitted rifle will be a natural mounter and pointer. It will come to the "pocket" and line up on the target almost with a will of its own.

With a shotgun, fit is perhaps even more critical.

With a shotgun, you absolutely need a consistent mount, and you should never focus on the bead at all. Rather, as you are mounting the properly fit shotgun, your eye will align with the barrel's rib, and you will focus only on your target, your lead and your follow through.

Proper fit of rifles and guns is not that hard to achieve, and none of us should have to struggle with poor fitting weapons.

A good test of whether you have a good fit is to mount your rifle or shotgun with your eyes closed, then see where your shooting eye ends up in relation to where the barrel is pointing.

Do that repeatedly and you will see a pattern. If you have a good fit, the pattern will be proper eye alignment with the rifle's sights or the shotgun's rib.

If you have a bad fit, a good "fitter" can modify your stock to suit.

I have figured out, with a lot of help, what kind of stock fits me, both for a rifle and a shotgun. You can, too.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
If that's true for you, then I would suggest that your open-sighted big bore rifles don't fit you properly.

You shouldn't have to wrestle with a rifle in order get off an accurate shot. Of course, a rifle does need to be aimed, but a well-fitted rifle will be a natural mounter and pointer. It will come to the "pocket" and line up on the target almost with a will of its own.

With a shotgun, fit is perhaps even more critical.

With a shotgun, you absolutely need a consistent mount, and you should never focus on the bead at all. Rather, as you are mounting the properly fit shotgun, your eye will align with the barrel's rib, and you will focus only on your target, your lead and your follow through.

Proper fit of rifles and guns is not that hard to achieve, and none of us should have to struggle with poor fitting weapons.

A good test of whether you have a good fit is to mount your rifle or shotgun with your eyes closed, then see where your shooting eye ends up in relation to where the barrel is pointing.

Do that repeatedly and you will see a pattern. If you have a good fit, the pattern will be proper eye alignment with the rifle's sights or the shotgun's rib.

If you have a bad fit, a good "fitter" can modify your stock to suit.

I have figured out, with a lot of help, what kind of stock fits me, both for a rifle and a shotgun. You can, too.

I can tell that you are not a open sight rifle shooter.Getting an accurate shot offhand with an open sighted big bore,consistantly,requires a high degree of skill,IMO.

Most of us learn that quickly when we venture into the dark world of the double rifle!

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I can tell that you are not a open sight rifle shooter.

What you can tell, and what is true, are clearly two different things.

I have several rifles with open sights, and have shot game and targets with all of them.

What I have posted above applies directly to shooting with open sights.

On the other hand, if you prefer to wrestle with your rifle, rather than use it to best advantage as a weapon, then of course you may do so to your heart's content.

BTW, GO BRUINS! BEAT THE HABS!

I quit following the habs ever since they decided to do away with the russian and other foreign players.I am all for good hockey above all and don't see hockey primarily as a social event.I will be going for the Bruins!