Question for Mr 470 mbogo. Could you tell me the full potentional of this cartridge,,will it top 2700 fps 'safely'.(OK,OK i know it's pointless, but as i posted somewhere, i was disappointed when .460 Wby didn't really make 2700 fps at the muzzle as claimed, but that' s just me he,he.

Per577,

What do you hunt with your 416 Wby in norway...?

Unfortunately i havent been able to try it on moose, i've just pulled the trigger on this thing on the shooting range at 100 yards with handloaded ammo made from our friend Ulrik who owns the .577 Tyr, you know.I have some hot rounds capable of 2800-2850 fps with 400 grainers barnes-x !I havent tried those yet, but soon.I'm a student so i have'nt money for a chrono and handload equipment, but i try to get equipment in the summer while working my ass off !!By the way 2715 fps with the 750 Barnes monolithic solid under 191 grains of vvn-550 is damn impressive, but not surprising, when comparing this .577 tyr to the .585. Then i find it even strange that the .585 Nyati could without problem(I've read somewhere)reach 2560 fps, or even more!
If you have seen those cases next to each other you could also wonder why the .585 Nyati just lays a tad behind the .577 tyr.Maybe it has something to do with case design, cause both huge cases use different kinds of powders. I'm an amateur you know.

I have been thinking on the same thing. A 585 Nyati take at about 150 grains of powder and the 577 T-rex 190 grain. A 585 nyati 2550 f/s a 577 t-rex 2700 f/s...?

Well,overkill.The .577 tyr with a 26"barrel
could probably make the 750 Barnes mono go faster,maybe2730-2750 fps with ulriks hot load, with 191 grains of vvn-550 !If you have the money and the .577 Tyr can be shipped from a-square in germany together with a bunch of horneber brass,i'd go for it.If you live by your self and have no other loans,why not !Ok. Maybe .585 Nyati with 750 grainers at 2560 fps is more than enough, on the other side, if you have special feelings for the .577 Tyr it's harder to convince you, as if someone would recommend me the .458 Win mag instead of the .460 deluxe Mark V,,,NO WAY !
In the future we should get a proprietary .600 built on an improved .50 BMG case, able to push 900 grainers to 2700 fps easily, he,he !!somewhereintime .

Per577,

Why do you want a 460 wby when you have a 416 wby?

Yeah a .700 built on the 50 BMG case would be better. he he...! My dream is a 577 Tyrannosaur. But there is a problem. There is no soft nose bullet that will hold togheter at velocitys over 2500 f/s.

Rob,

What was the weight on the .700 based on the 50 BMG...?

Overkill !

I want the .460 cause as i mentioned it is someway special for me, and i like the deluxe design, and it has all the power i want, besides its versatile when it comes to bullets.One could push 300 grainers to 3200 fps or something, and the 550 woodleigh to 2550 fps.
And for my concern, i don't give the #*!! about those soft points in those .577 cal.It is just the power i want, buying something like that, besides i would naturally use solids as if to avoid bullet brakeups, and have a clean shot through whatever you point the gun at !
I think the rifle weight was 16 pounds(I found that to be a bit light , pushing 1200 grainers to up to 2600 fps. But the brake had to be very efficient.

PER577

Welcome.

Don't forget that you must be able to actually hit the animal you are set off to hunt with these cannons.
I have a 416 Rigby, and that is about the biggest gun I could aim and hit well with.

I have fired some rounds with 500 grs in 460 wby, and I must say that I was thinking a lot more of what happened after I pulled the trigger, instead of consentrating of getting a good hit.

That's my opinion.

Magnar

Per577,

Yes the 460 Wby has enough power for anything.

The 460 wby cn do something that the 577/585 cant do. Hit a target at over 200 yards...!

You cant hit a target at over 100-150 yards with a 577 Tyrannosaur because the bullet is going to drop so much and i dont think any one can shoot a t-rex with precision at over 60 yards...!

If I load my 460 wby with 400 grain bullets then i can shoot at 300 yards with good precision.

But the 577/585 rifles are stopping rifles for dangerous game at short ranges...

Per577,

Please tell me more about Ulric�s 577 Tyrannosaur...?

Have he done any expansion tests with the 750 grain woodleigh bullets at 2700 f/s?

Overkill.

Ulriks .577 Tyr is an A-square hannibal, with a barrel measuring 24". That's it.
Could you tell me about your rifle & ballistics ?

Per577,

My 460 Wby is a Mark V rifle with a 26 inch barrel and i have a Aimpoint 5000 x 2 sight on it.

I get maybe 2600 f/s with the Hornady 500 grain bullet. And 2900 f/s with the 350 grain Hornady bullet.

What velocity do you think Ulric�s 577 Tyrannosaur could have get if it was with a 26-28 inch barrel...?

Per577 and Robgunbuilder,

How much will the weight be on a .600 based on the full lenght 50 BMG case...?

And is it possible to do a magazine rifle or is the singel shoot action the only way...?

Per577,

I have a Browning Bar Light semi automatic in .30-06 And i can shoot 4 shoots at 2 seconds and even hit a target at 40-50 yards...! That is a effective stopper for Moose and Bears.

And another question,

Do you belive that a 750 grain bullet from a 577 Tyrannosaur at 2700 f/s will stop a bear if it is running at you because of the energy of the bullet. "The punch of the bullet" I think that my self. And so does Todd E because he have done a test about "Stopping power" And i also belive that a bullet from a 460 wby will knock down a 150 kg moose because of the pressure of the bullet.

What do you think about "STOPPING POWER"

Overkill.

My assumption with a .577 Tyr 26-28 inch barrel would be 2730-2770 fps. With a 28 "barrel you won't gain much more than with 26,24 ", besides you must be very strong as such a rifle would have intolerable front weight( thinking rational).
The most interesting questions, for my concerns, would be getting an action that would stand up to the bolt thrust, at this levels and not cost a fortune, like the brevex magnum mauser, chambered for .505 Gibbs and others. My suggestion would be the Prairie gun works action with a .750 Diameter action. Another question would be the ammo. One can't guarantee(of course) that Dr.horneber and his exellent brass would be available for ever. The only hope is that a-square continues, and that quality cart. comp will offer .577 tyr brass as stated on their internet site. Pac nor barrel would be my choice, i think.

Life is to short. got dammit !

Overkill.

I think that this proprietary .600 had to weigh over 15 pounds with an extremely efficient muzzle brake.But even then it should weigh more.

I'm sure Rob knows much more. Shooting a 18 pound rifle of this cal.without muzzle brake and 900 grainer to 2750 fps, would be like having an early Mike tysons right fist planted in your shoulder voluntarily !!
This thing will #**% up everything you point it at, including yourself,,,,Just 'kidding' !

Do you know if Ulirc have tested the 900 grain Woodleigh soft nose bullets...? What velocity would be possible to get with them. But i dont think that Woodleigh make them more...!

Rob,

What do you think the weight has to be on a .600 made on a full length 50 BMG case...?

Andhow many cartridges do you think the magazine can take???

Per577,

Have you think about that a 50 BMG is shooting a long 750 grain bullet at 2700-2800 f/s.

What velocity will be possible to get with Barnes orginal 700 grain bullet in the 50 BMG...?

Overkill.

I'm sorry. The 50 BMG isn't so interesting in my opinion, cause it's a military round and it has no "soul" compared to .505 Gibbs,.577 Tyr and the list goes on...
But i think the 700 grain bullet would do something like 2900+(I guess). And yes,i think your right about the 750 grain A-Max beeing pushed to the velocities you mentioned. More exiting,still is the .50 BMG IMPROVED necked out to 600,700 - impressive stuffs!
As Rob stated this project will cost afortune, and i'm sure we both have no such experience.One need a hydraulc press and the rifle will cost 8000 to 10 000 �
In the future iguess i will be happy with oneof those .577 calibers(Hopefully the .577 Tyr)or am i just being Naive ?!

Per577,

But how much will the weight be on a 50 BMG IMPROVED necked up to .600 or .700 with a muzzle brake...? And it is only woodleigh who make bullets in caliber .600 and .700 and a woodleigh soft point will not hold togheter at 2650-2700 f/s? And a solid will not leave much energy in a moose. As you post earlyer that you "dont give a shit in those 577 soft points it�s just the power i want" what are you doing with the power if the bullet just goes trough the animals like the moose...? Yeah you have right about that the 50 BMG isn�t so interesting a 750 grains bullet at 2700-2800 f/s in .510 caliber. when a 577 Tyrannosaur can shoot a 750 grains bullet at 2750 with a 26" barrel with a caliber of .585

But what will the weight be on a 50 BMG IMPROVED necked up to caliber .700 with a muzzle brake and how many cartridges will the magazine take? and is it possible to built a magazine rifle in this caliber...? do you know Robgunbuilder.???

Overkill.

First of all i forgot to mention that i would never hunt the moose with a cal of .585 and i would not be strong enough to carry such a gun, and i see no point in having a soft point travelling at those velocities,,and i like to use a gun that save me some good meat, so i have meat for the next year in my freezer,,get the point.I really wouldn't use (nor anybody else i think)a gun like that on elk hunting. No-one in his right mind would waste all the meat,using .585 cal soft points. on elk. or do it just for fun. I would never defend a person doing so, unless he is experienced and no how to handle his weapons right.

Dennis Olsons rifle in .700 juggernaut weighs 16 pounds with muzzlebrake i think.

No not soft points for moose hunting but for bear. We have lot of bears here in north sweden and if a angry bear run at you then i think that you want a soft point to stop the bear and do as much damage as possible.

I am a meat hunter to, i have been hunting moose with caliber 6,5 x 55 in many years. and with the 7 mm rem mag to. Last year i shoot a moose at 350 yards with the 7 mm rem mag and with Norma Oryx bullet.

A 750 grain soft nose bullet at 2750 f/s in caliber .585 will do much damage to a 200 kg moose. And i dont want to eat that moose...!

But when a angry bear is near you then it is another story. I have been 15 yards from a bear once and it isn�t fun to stand there with a 6,5 x 55 in your hands... i hope you understand what i mean. It was after this i bought my 460 wby.

16 Pounds, is that 8 kg? it has to be a very heavy recoil in that rifle...! do you know if it was a magazine rifle? how many cartridges does it take in the magazine?

Overkill.

I think it is a magazinerifle, but again it would be nice if rob could tell us, and we bout need no further explenation !
And i don't know how many of those cases will fit into the mag.
Ok i understand why you wear a .460 when hunting. To have a bear 15 yards away from you had to be pumping out some serious amount of adrenaline. Anuway i think a bear would run away from you, if you stand still, and slowly move backwards. I 've actually seen it myself(On TV!!)The guy didn't have nothing on him to protecyt himself with, but he were not of those faint-hearted, i can tell you.
Anyway, i would like to have a e-mail adress from this Dennis Olson and his .700 Juggernaut(on the impr.50 BMG case)Then i will have all the info that i need.
Rob ,,help us out !

Yes it would be fun to hear more about the 700 Juggernaut.

Robgunbuilder,

Do you know the e-mail adress to Dennis Olson. My e-mail doesn�t work anyway but Per577�s e-mail maybe work.

Per577,

I have been thinking, is there a law for how big caliber you can have for hunting...? Or military and similar laws...?

Overkill.
Had my exam today. I hope i'll pass. I'm tired but i can tell you this; there are bullets in the 50 BMG constructed for hunting, No, i do not no any law in Norway, even tough. A man would have to be lost in his mind hunting down an animal with a 20mm Oerlikon !Unless the situation say something else. As someone so wisely stated hre on the board; Pick the biggest gun you can handle and shoot well !
Would you load your .460 Wby to 2650 fps with hornady solids ?

I think it possible to get the Hornady solid 500 grain to around 2600 f/s. That would give a good penetration.

The 577 Tyrannosur have more power than the 50 BMG so it doesn�t matter if there are hunting bullets or not...!

A 50 BMG = a 750 grain bullet at 2650-2700 f/s.

A 577 Tyrannosaur MAX loaded with a 750 grain bullet at 2750 f/s.

And the 577 t-rex have a bigger bullet diameter than the 50 BMG.

I think that the 750 grain woodleigh soft nose bullet will hold togheter in game even at 2750 f/s. Think about the 500 grain Hornady soft point bullet at 2650 f/s from my 460 wby. It hold togheter and leave a weight at about 400 grains. And the woodleigh are a bonded bullet and the Hornady is not. What do you think...?

Per577,

I forget to say that i shoot the Hornady soft point into a tree and it went in 35 cm. And tree is much more harder than a animal. Yeah a buffalo can be harder but not a bear.

Overkill.

If the 50 BMG is loaded to the max with its 800 grainers, say 2700+ it's more powerful than the .577 Tyr,,no question about that one i suppose ?!.50 BMG IS MORE POWERFULL, END OF DISCUSSION !!
So, at 2715 fps with 750 soft points, you think it will stay together when hitting a bear. I'm sorry,i'm getting a little tired of this subject. As i said, when i'm finished my studies it will take a time before i get money enough, and then i can start thinking of either a .505 Gibbs with horneber brass, or a .585 Nyati or maybe i can buy Ulriks gun if he gets tired of the beating he,he.(or the .585 Nyati with 750 grainers to 2560 fps,,cool!)
The weight of the nyati or the Gibbs would be 15 pounds at least !!
By the way, the middle cal. of my dreams, is a rifle in 8.59 Titan lazzeroni, with 250 grainers to 3150 fps !!Guess thats a rifle which needs eyerelief when scoped.

Hi Per577.
Nice to see that you are slowly returning to earth, Per. I belive the bear that Overkill saw, was big as a train. (or a dino.)
I to, consider a 8,59 Titan, but have you shecked the prices of reloading components??
It costs a fortune!!!

------------------
Shoot well, and hit hard.

Arild.
(And YES, I'm a NRA member!)

[This message has been edited by 460wby (edited 05-16-2002).]

.460 Wby !

Yes, i am aware of the costs of Lazzeroni equipment !!(sure it's not cheap).
Maybe, just maybe one could hope that sako trg-s will chamber this round and get the prize down, at least when comparing the prizes of lazz. rifle versus sako's !
They chamber it in their 7.82 Warbird, so it's not impossible. And i don't no exactly what the reload equipment will cost you, but enough !....And,yes.I hope this subject soon will end up on side 2 or further down he,he.

Per577,

Do you know why Robgunbuilder doesn�t help us with the 700 Juggernaut...?

Overkill.

I suppose he is dead tired of this subject,and he has given us some answers already.And he see no point providing us with more info, unless we get more serious about getting one !And i understand. you must send him a mail if your really interested. More, i can't say.

Per ".800" NITRO EXPRESS

Per.
It's not the Rifles I'm conserned about, When it comes to Lazzeroni. I would of course like to have a Lazz. rifle, but there are no one importing them, as far as I know though. But thats no problem.
Midway Norge has reamers, reloading dies, and brass. So far no problem, and you'll always find a action to build it on to, BUT.........sheck the price on brass!!!
Not far from $85 for a package (20 pcs.)
Midway Norge has almost the double in price on everything compared to Midway USA.

------------------
Shoot well, and hit hard.

Arild.
(And YES, I'm a NRA member!)

Per577,

I have been thinking about a 50 BMG opened up to caliber .600 and the recoil of a rifle in that caliber will be like 2 times my 460 wby at the same time if the weight of the rifle is 18 pounds...! No one can shoot a fast 2 nd shoot with a rifle with so much recoil and not even 1 shoot. And the 50 BMG opened to caliber .700 pushing a 1200 grain bullet at 2600 f/s that will give a recoil like 3 times my 460 wby at once. And that recoil will kill a human. And i even have a muzzle brake on my 460 wby. It has to be a good muzzle brake on a 16 pounds 700 Juggernaut...!

The recoil number in the swedish "Joule" is

460 Wby rifle weight 11 pounds-- recoil number .122

577 Tyrannosaur rifle weight 15 pounds-- recoil number .226

A 50 BMG opened to caliber .600 rifle weight 16 pounds-- recoil number .310

A 50 BMG opened to caliber .700 rifle weight 16 pounds-- Recoil number .438

All with MAX loads...!

If you are going to get a fast 2 nd and 3 nd shoot then you have to build a 600 or 700 improved in a rifle weight at 25 pounds at least.

Overkill.

As Rob said. There were people who tried the .700 Juggernaut in a rifle at 16 pounds and a clamshell brake. And they din't think the recoil was to vicious.As said the brake was extremely efficient, but your probably right about an increasment in weight would have been nice. get in touch with this Dennis Olson and return to this subject when you have more usable information. By the way,
Karl mentioned a guy in Australia who builded
a custom .727 cal.on the 50 BMG.Enough of that !You should try 500 swifts and 123 gr. of IMR-4350 !By the way,how high dare you go in your .460 with 500 hor.RN ?

.460 Wby
What suggestions do you have, building up a non- lazz. rifle in 8.59 Titan who could stand the pressure from factory loads, not to mention precision barrel you would consider.
Do they have brass, reamers, dies for all Lazz. cal.including the .475 Bibamufu and .375 Saturn you think ?

Overkill.
Take off that silly muzzlebreak you have on your 460, or sell it!!!
Thats my opinion. If you dont dear to shoot it without a muzzlebreak I really wonder why you are speaking of anything bigger.
I've been on the shootingrange today, shooting my 460 Wby.(Brno 602 wo/muzzlebreak). I shot approx. 25 shots, using 500grs. Hornady SP, loaded with 122grs. N160, wearing just a T-shirt. And belive me; I have a headacke now!!
I have also fired several shots with a 585 Nyati, and was thinking what use do I have of that one??? (I'm also thinking about what use I have of the 460, but I just cant make my self selling it.

Per577.
It's no problem to build a rifle chambered for a Lazzeroni round, as long as you have action with proper measurements.
Just sheck the Midway Norges webpage, I belive they have the Saturn, alright!

www.midwaynorge.com

------------------
Shoot well, and hit hard.

Arild.
(And YES, I'm a NRA member!)

Hello to all big bore fans. i am new to this site, but i have some info to Per577 about the 475A&M. I have a rifle in this calibre, most certainly the only one in Norway. DO NOT USE ACKLEYS LOAD DATA. Period. I have got 2730fps chronographed, with 500 gr swift. The most accurate load gives 2550 fps. A fun rifle to shoot, but recoil is severe.I am going to hand it over to a friend of mine. I really want a double, so my mind is set for a Merkel safari in 470 nitro express.