With modern strong actions (with a little extra length possible if needed) powders and bullets....what is this cool old cartridge capable of? I have seen some bits here and there about modern data, but not a whole lot. I know the old various rifle/hunter books classify it as not really enough for DG....but was that more because of old bullet design, or just the over all cart itself?

I'm really wanting to build one, if would it would serve me well on say....buff, hippo and possibly a tuskless?

Never done it it, but have been tempted. It should do it properly loaded with good bullets.

Ray Atkinson is high on it. Do a search on him and it.

Thanks,

My father had a FN in 10.75X68 & he shot 2 leopards and other smaller game in India in the 50's. He sold it before I was old enough to change his mind! I will one day own a rifle in that caliber.

While I have no personal experience with this cartridge, I have corresponded with a couple of guys who have loaded for this caliber.

While the original factory load was 347gr bullet at 2200 fps or so, it is possible to safely reload 400 gr Woodleighs to 2200 fps - which is the original standard for the 404 Jeffery. The 404 in turn can be loaded closer to 2400 fps now.

I've been interested in this cartridge for some time now as well. I think in today's world, it would be fine for the species you listed with careful bullet selection and load developement.

North Fork makes a 380-gr. Semi-Spitzer that I think would be almost ideal for the 10.75x68. I'm guessing you could safely get to 2300 FPS at the muzzle with that bullet. As another poster noted, 400-gr. bullets could probably be pushed to 2200 FPS fairly easily, so the Swift A-Frame would get my vote at that weight. I'd feel comfortable using the North Fork in this cartridge for Lion, Buff, Leopard, Hippo, and Tuskless Ele. Rhino and Bull Elephant would be the only two species where I'd want something bigger with a heavier bullet.

It's a great old cartridge .

I have an original Oberndorf in 10.75x68 that I am seriously thinking about taking on a lioness/buffalo hunt in June. I get 2200 fps with 347 grain Woodleighs with no problem.

I was doing some load development this morning with IMR3031 and H4895 pushing 400gr A-Frames. Have also tried H335 and 748. 2200 with a 400gr bullet, keeping the pressure reasonable, is going to be tough, in my rifle anyway. So far, 3031 is the most promising. This rifle is going to Moz for buff this August. Bob

FYI, I am using 66 grains of IMR4064, a Federal 215M primer and a 347 grain Woody SP. Average velocities of 2229 fps, high 2250, low 2199.

VFR1, where do you get your brass?

A friend of mine here in Auckland, New Zealand, has a Mauser Oberndorf Type B in 10,75x68. It was given to him by a South African who imported it from there. No, he doesn't want to sell it. It's date marked "1908" which makes a nonsense of claims by Cartridges of the World that it originates in the 1920's. Early 10,75x68's sometimes had undersize bores in the .418-.419" range. This was sorted out at a conference in Erfurt, Germany, in 1909 and the bore was thereafter standardized to .423" Early Oberndorf made Mausers often have land and groove diameter information on the underside of the action / barrel but this one hasn't been out of it's stock here. It has been fired, twice, with stiff chambering but otherwise uneventful.

I seem to recall that Hatari magazine did a chapter on 10,75x68 history and perhaps also a project rifle. It seems to have a good reputation as a "meat" rifle in Africa and the Hatari editor thought it under rated.

Kiwi,

I know the gun, and the man He posts on my other gun board. Actually sent pics of that gun to me last week when he asked a question and had a pic of it up there.

MileHighShooter

There have been quite a few discussions on your question in this forum and others. Keith Luckhurst has written a good article on the conversion of his 10.75x68 Oberndorf Mauser to accommodate the larger 404 Jeffery cartridge. I quote from his article;

"My .404 started out life in 1928 as an original ‘Type A’ Oberndorf Mauser in 10.75x68mm. It was used to shoot an elephant in Tuli in about 1973. The shot was a frontal brain shot, which knocked down the animal, but it immediately got up and made off to Botswana with great enthusiasm. It was then decided that the conversion to 10.75x73mm, also known as the .404 Jeffrey, was in order".

The 404J can be loaded up to higher pressures virtually duplicating the 416 Rigby and I suppose your 10.75x68 may be able to also be loaded to higher pressures to duplicate the original 404J with a 400gr bullet.

I have exactly the same rifle as Keith Lockhurst writes about in his article and the penalty for punching out a 400gr bullet at 2100-2200 fps from a 404J cartridge in a light 10.75x68 rifle, is substantial recoil. This is somewhat defeating the purpose of both these cartridges which gave good performance on the game they were intended for at low pressures and light recoil. The 10.75x68 was a popular cartridge for the larger species of game in Africa but not really the large dangerous variety although has dispatched it's fair share of DG. The 404J became popular as an easy to shoot dangerous game cartridge which quietly went about the business asked of it, some say it has possibly shot more dangerous game in Africa than any other cartridge.

I accept we like to experiment around with cartridges but by boosting bullet weight, pressures and velocities in cartridges and guns for which they weren't designed, I think we loose some of the balance that these cartridges and rifle combinations actually came with.

I bought my Mauser already opened up to 404J and in all respects it is a fine rifle and in using the 404J cartridge produces the goods with 400gr bullets at the original velocities and pressures. I would prefer this pathway rather than hyping up the 10.75x68 to try and match it.

I have been contemplating a 10.75x86 as well. I was think it might be a good rifle for Alaska, a 400 Whelan type cartridge without the headspace problems.

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
With modern strong actions (with a little extra length possible if needed) powders and bullets....what is this cool old cartridge capable of? I have seen some bits here and there about modern data, but not a whole lot. I know the old various rifle/hunter books classify it as not really enough for DG....but was that more because of old bullet design, or just the over all cart itself?

I'm really wanting to build one, if would it would serve me well on say....buff, hippo and possibly a tuskless?

I shot 3 buffalos with this cartridge, 2 with original ammunition from RWS ( thin jacketed bullet ) and 1 with a reloaded cartridge ( 347grs FMJ bullet from Woodleigh ) . This cartridge is, IMHO , marginal for buffalo hunting and no suitable for elefant hunting ! We have better cartridges today for this purpose !

quote:

Originally posted by ozark hunter:
I have been contemplating a 10.75x86 as well. I was think it might be a good rifle for Alaska, a 400 Whelan type cartridge without the headspace problems.

Google 411 Hawk.

400gr AFrames at 2150fps? You could say the 450/400 is marginal for buff, as Hornady loads their ammo for this caliber to less than 2100fps. None other than John Taylor considered the 450/400 a fine all around African rifle with a 400gr bullet at 2150fps. I am thinking the buff aren't any tougher now than in John's time. I'll bet the bullets we have now are better.

My understanding is that the test barrels for the 450/400 were 28" and in the real world they have always done 2050.

quote:

Originally posted by VFR1:
400gr AFrames at 2150fps? You could say the 450/400 is marginal for buff, as Hornady loads their ammo for this caliber to less than 2100fps. None other than John Taylor considered the 450/400 a fine all around African rifle with a 400gr bullet at 2150fps. I am thinking the buff aren't any tougher now than in John's time. I'll bet the bullets we have now are better.

Many would disagree with you. While I am not experienced with DG calibers, there is enough written by real practical experts who have concluded that the 450/400 is at least as good as the 375 H&H for DG. The 10.75X68 is also regarded in the same class when good bullets are used.

I personally believe that the 10.75X68 as well as the 450/400 are adequate for any game that can be taken with a 375 H&H. They are not stopping calibers but really good hunting calibers (particularly when the PH has the stopper).

I had the good fortune to shoot a variety of Double Rifles in 2008 with US friends who post here. They included 9.3X74R, 450/400, 470NE, 600NE Jeffery and possible a couple of other calibers. It was an incredible day's shooting! I used the Webley action 450/400 and shot a 3 inch target at 25 meters off hand. I could not do that with the 470 or the 600 NE. I hunted whitetail does with the same rifle & missed one at 50 meters right on dark.

The point I am leading to is that for the average hunter who does a once-in-a-lifetime DG hunt, and who is not too familiar with real big bores, I think the 450/400 or the 10.75X68 are easier to shoot well with and are adequate for DG with good bullets.

Anyone who can handle .375 or .338 recoil can handle a 450/400. Actually I would rather shoot it than .338.

Nakihunter, I agree with you. I think the 10.75 or the 450/400 are great rounds with good bullets. I want to take a nice trim rifle this year. I have a Win .458 and a custom .460. The style of the 10.75 is just old Africa. My PH carries a .500 Jeff and my hunting partners have .505 Gibbs and .510 Wells, respectivly. The 10.75 is super accurate with the 2.5X scope in QD rings, shooting .75in off the bags at 100yds. Much better than either of the other rifles. Next caliber down for me is 9.3x64. Cheers.

I have a FN supreme in 10.75x68, no problem with pressures with a 347 grn @2370 fps. I shot a moose with that load a couple yrs ago. I have the reamer so built another as a mann stocked light weight, 21" barrel. The recoil is a little stout with the curved steel butplate though.... that may end up being replaced, but it sure looks nice!

Back 40,

Neat! What kind of velocity are you getting in the 21" version?

Come on, Back40, the steel plate on the mann is classic. My 10.75 has a Neidner checkered steel butt plate. The rifle goes 8.5lbs with the old steel tube Weaver, the stock fits me very well so the recoil, with the 400gr AFs, is about like my heavier .458WM. Manageable off the bench for load development, a pussycat off hand.

As old charlie Askins used to say," you'd have to have lace in your panties to be bothered by the recoil of that gun" But, as I like to use it unscoped and it weighs right at 7# loaded, it does bite a little dammit! To be honest, I havent run the loads over the chronograph, just assumed they were a little less then the FN. I'll have to do that soon. My plan is to get a swaging die and squeeze down some 300 grn 44 mag bullets to use the gun as a deer rifle in the woods.

Back40, I have thought about going the swaging die route myself. Lee is making me a factory crimp die for this cartridge as we speak. I may call them this afternoon and inquire about the swaging die. I will post after speaking with Bill.

Spoke with Bill in the custom die shop at Lee. They are making me a .423 sizing die and will return it with the factory crimp die. $25 each and I should have them in a couple of weeks. I am out of town and cannot mic a factory bullet. I hope they are .423. Maybe I should go .4235 or .424 as I will be shooting he swaged bullets in the crappy Bertram brass for practice. Poor neck tension. The Horneber and RWS brass is superb and I will save it for the AF's.

Yes, please let me/everyone know the cost. If it's reasonable I'll grab one too. if it's to pricey maybe someone would want to split the cost and we could share it. Once you did up a couple hundred bullets to a time it would just be sitting on the shelf anyway.

You posted while I was typing, good news on the dies!! I got brass from Buffalo Arms, very reasonable priced, made from new belted brass with the belt turned and extractor groove recut. They work great and the only thing missing is the headstamp.

And once more...
I have the same problem with the neck tension of Bertram brass, I usually size it (rcbs dies) without the expander ball in place to keep it as tight as I can.

Back40, You are welcome to use my swaging die when it arrives. I can size a couple hundred, send it on and you can do the same. What do you think about going .4235 on the die? I guess once I get the crimp die, the neck tension on the Bertram brass will be a non player. I had the same problem with some Norma 9.3mm bullets that mic'd .365, actually marked that on the box. The crimp die took care of the problem and they are as accurate as the Partitions I use in my 9.3x64. Do your factory bullets mic .423? What part of the country do you call home?

I only had some Barnes originals not loaded right now, they mike out at .423 even. I dont think .4235 could be a problem at all unless the neck/throat of your chamber is cut to benchrest tolerances, not likely! The jackets on pistol, or .444 marlin bullets are going to be thin enough to not even notice the differance.
Thankyou very much for the offer, I appreciate it, but at the price they quoted you I should just order one too. What number did you call to order yours?

Back40, I spoke with Bill at Lee Precision this morning and he recommended going .424 on the sizer. They say going .001 larger is standard for sizing. He has my order and said it would be easier to make two while they are set up for this caliber. I told them to go ahead and make two and I can forward one to you. If this does not suit you, respond and I will have them just make my stuff. The number is 262-673-3075. Bob

Bob, that would be great! Can I send you some money now so you arent out of pocket anything?
I've got to head back out into the cold to finish work, and will shoot you a PM later.

No sweat on the dinero. They said 3wks and I will let you know when the shipment arrives. Plinking with $22/100 bullets should be a blast I am using H4895 for my hunting loads and this powder can be reduced by 40%. 40grs should make for a sweet varmint load. We need to swap pics of our 10.75's. Roger Ferrell is rust bluing my gun as we speak, getting ready for Moz buff in August.

VFR1,
did you get the private message I sent?

Yep, got it. Sent a reply.

Dang, must not have made it through the cyber highway, as I havent recieved anything.

Will resend.

Back40, Did you get the PM?

If you guys who are thinking about swaging down 44 bullets look in the bullet making forum some of us have done it all ready.

I swage 300gr serria 44 down in one pass to 416 dia with polished out lee die one needs a good strong press. They work well in my 416 taylor at 2650fps. Getting them to 423 shouldn't be any trouble.

VFR1,
nope, something isnt working, on my end I'm sure.
I'll send you my e-mail address.

Back40, did you get the e-mail message?