Does the 458 Win model have the same magazine box as the 375 H&H model? Please confirm this if anyone have both models. Any info will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Ming

Ming,

I cannot answer your question directly, but my 500 AHR is built on a CZ 550 Magnum and it's magazine box is stamped 375 H&H. So the 500 AHR will feed fine from a 375 H&H magazine box. It does have a significantly different follower however.

SRS

Ditto. My 458's magazine box is stamped 375.

ming,

The reply is yes, it is the same magazine.

I have a .458 CZ Safari Mag in Win mag that will become a .450 Ackley.

ming,
The overall dimensions of the boxes on my two examples of CZ 550 Magnum in 375 H&H and 458 WM are the same.

However, my 375 H&H box has shallow and narrow vertical columns protruding (stamped) into the box side walls two on each side, which would keep the follower better centered within the box with less lateral play. This must be some fine tuning from the factory.

The 458 WM box sidewalls are smooth internally. This seems to be the only difference in the magazine boxes.

The followers look like they started off as the same beefy steel part but got shaped a lot differently for the final feeding adjustments, with more detailing and reshaping having been done on the 375 H&H than on the 458 WM, apparrently.

Anybody who doesn't have a REAL DGR yet ought to just get a CZ 550 Safari Magnum and make a 458 Lott out of it.

The simplest route is to rechamber a 458 Win. Mag. to 458 Lott, glass bed the action recoil lug, tune the trigger, put an Uncle Mike's 16 guage shotgun "Magnum Band" split barrel band on the barrel three inches out from the forend tip, get rid of the forend swivel base, fill the hole in the stock with the JB Weld that was also used to fit the barrel band, and go shooting. Mine seems to feed and function just fine with no other work. El Cheapo Magnifico.

It is easy to find a low pressure load that delivers 2150 to 2250 fps with the 500 grain Swift, Woodleigh and Hornady bullets, especially in the 25" CZ barrel.

The Lux stock is great for the express sights that come from the factory.

Go for refinement of the DGR by shortening the barrel to 22-23" and installing a new front sight with a bigger bead or patridge/sourdough. Then a PME 3-position safety.

Want a scope? Well one can make do with the Lux stock. Or get a new stock and mount a scope and now you are crapping in high cotton. Your DGR is slicker than greased owl crap now. You are wise as the owl.

Further refinements: start with the action and a PME safety and build a complete custom rifle with all the bells and whistles, if you have time and money to burn.

All those Lever Action Fever (LAF) sufferers and pushfeed freaks should take note. It may not cure their disease, but may relieve suffering and prolong life amongst the afflicted.

Cheers!

Thanks guys for the info and all your comments are greatly appreciated.

There are so many choices when it comes time to building a big bore rifle. Unfortunately, the only constraints holding things back would always be time and money. Cheers! Ming

DaggaRon has said about all there is to say, except I would dissagree with a couple options which are just my opinion.

You don't need:

1) a three position safety.
2) a barrel band swivel.

You need:

1) a new stock, or at least I did, as the Lux is a killer to shoot, for me.
2) to shorten the barrel if you are actually going to use it to hunt, as 25" is unweildy, for me.

Will

Hey Will,

The walnut stock on the CZ 550 Safari Magnum is certainly not very good looking but it functions fine. Unless I am re-barreling it to a larger contour, I would like to keep the CZ stock the way it is. As for the barrel length, I would love to have it shortened to maybe around 22 in. Thanks. Ming

Ming

I had mine shortened to 22". A lot better feel to it.

As someone pointed out one day, the stock isn't that much different than a straight comb stock, it is the backward angle that the butt (and pad) is cut on the factory stock.

When I shot it, the dang thing would muzzle jump almost out of control. If it were I, I would get the butt cut perpendicular to the line of sight.

Have fun with your project.

Will

Will, the pitch on the butt of the CZ Lux stock is designed to counteract muzzle rise. That pitch is called "pitch down." If you want to see the muzzle rise, put some "pitch up" on the butt: angle the butt in the opposite direction from the zero pitch than the CZ. A butt perpendicular to bore is neutral, or zero pitch, and will not counteract muzzle rise as well as "pitch down." Pitch down is that which will work to pitch the muzzle down, NOT the butt down and muzzle up.

You will never see any firearms with "pitch up," but you will see lots with the kind of pitch that the CZ has, including those California style Weatherby stocks, that are great for recoil handling, if nothing else.

I found the Lux stock to be very comfortable to shoot. It works well for heavy recoil and iron sights. Are you BS'ing us?

DaggaRon:

I guess it is just me, my disfigured physique or the way I hold a rifle!

From a mechanics viewpoint, the greater the distance between the line of the barrel and the butt the more rotation (greater the moment arm) of the rifle. This I found to be true with the Lux stock. I couldn't shoot the thing under my range's covered shooting station, as it would flip up and hit the tin roof!

I had the same experience when shooting from the bench. It jumped so much, it would fly of the forend rest. The pitch of the butt apparently didn't do its job.

Once I went with a straight (or nearly so) McMillan stock, most of the flip disappeared. And, incidentally, the straight stock still allows ease of use of the open sights, which is all I use with it, contrary to what is usually purported here.

Now for the commentary: the large stock drop may be traditional, nostalgic, or whatever, but it is totally counter-productive.

It would be a very serious detriment to fast reloading and target acquisition in a charge!!

Will

Ming-Some thoughts for you! The magazine ribs on the .375 can be flattened with a press to work properly with the .458 lott. To deceide how much to flatten them, take three dummy Lott cartridges ( with the slugs you want to use in them) and hold them together with a rubber band. Shape the mag box so that they fit in the magazine and move up and down this exact shape smoothly. Grind your follower so that it also rides the mag box the same way. The action rails usually take only a little light filing. Try the feeding and watch how the cartridges enter the chamber. The CZ550 ramp has small"wings" on either side that may interfere. Grind them out if they do,carefully. You will want to add a second recoil lug to the barrel and a foreward recoil bolt through the stock. The CZ stock will work and not split if you do what I have suggested.
If you are planning to use the CZ550 barrel, good luck getting it off. The only thing I have found that works is a pipe wrench. This will Mar the barrel and it will have to be cleaned up on a Lathe and re-blued. Luckily Headspacing and barrel timing should be a snap given that the Lott is a Belted case. Please don't try to rechamber this by hand using a hand held Lott reamer going through the action with a long T- wrench as has been suggested by others. It will make a chamber(sort of), but it will be egg shaped and probably will have chamber rings. It will go Boom, but it's amateur hour stuff. This nice a gun deserves better.
Finally, give some thought to the .450 Ackley, I've built two of them and the cartridge design is superior IMHO to the Lott. mine feed like they are on ball bearings! The only advantage the Lott has is commercially available and properly headstamped brass. Even this can be overcome!-Rob

[ 07-09-2002, 21:00: Message edited by: Robgunbuilder ]

Thanks Rob for the info. Man this is good stuff. I will have to copy and paste this info into my shooting file.

Anyway, I undestand the extra cross bolt reenforcement but why there is a need for another recoil lug on the barrel. I thought that there is already an intergal lug under the rear sight base. As for removing the barrel, does it help to heat the shank up to around 450 degree to ease the removal process. Finally, yes, I do prefer the 450 Ackley over the 458 Lott due to it's "bottle neck" design. Thanks. Cheers! Ming

Ming - The "second recoil lug" on the CZ550 is way too cheezy for a .450 Ackley/Lott. I would never trust it. There are too many reports of this cartridge splitting stocks particularily CZ's. Take the CZ lug out and put on a proper lug. I can make one for you if you want with the proper barrel dimensions. As for removing the barrel, I tried that as well as soaking in KROIL: overnight. The only thing that worked is a pipe-wrench and a4 ft pipe for leverage. CZ uses locktite or epoxy in their barrel threads.-Rob

[ 07-10-2002, 21:20: Message edited by: Robgunbuilder ]

Ming,

my cz .416 has .375 stamped on the mag box.

Will talking of rifle jump (I agree with what you say about riflejump with the hog back) before I changed my .416 stock when I fired it from my ute window it jumped up and cracked the top of the window frame. My new stock which is a weatherby design does not do this and I fired it fom the ute window a few times on my recent hunting trip.

I wonder why my Lux stocked 458 Lott doesn't jump all over the place? It just wallows in the sand bags at the bench, never jumps a bit. It also feels great shooting offhand at the gongs out to 200 yards: CLANG

Drop at heel will contribute to muzzle rise, but pitch down at butt will counteract muzzle rise to some degree.

The Lux stock is great for iron sights by my "physique." Maybe I just have a more powerful grip than Will and PC?

Get a grip guys.

Daggaron, I have very petite hands

PC,
Oh sure! And "Pure Evil" says that I am gay, so he/it doesn't want me to intrude on any more of its threads. I am so hurt!

PC,

I don't have a recoil problem with my 416 Rigby CZ. My is the Safari Magnum which has a very similar stock like the Lux model. I plan to keep the stock the way it is if this rifle does not get converted into something else. I still cannot decide whether I want a 50 caliber bolt action or not but really like the idea of rechambering the 458 Win. CZ to a 450 Ackley. Cheers! Ming

Daggaron who gives a shit what idiots like him think, I try my best not even to respond to there threads.

Look at it this way ming eventually you will get both so now it is just a choice of which comes first.

I reckon get a big cracker for the fun of it, I have no need for a .585 Nyatti won't even pretend I do, I just want one.

[ 07-17-2002, 10:14: Message edited by: PC ]