Hi everyone,

I seem to recall an article in one of the gun rags a few years ago in which the author fired some .416 400 gr. X bullets into the skull of a dead (previously killed with real solids) elephant. He indicated with some surprise that the X bullets had more than sufficent penetration to kill the elephant, even using the frontal brain shot. Obviously, using improper ammunition on an elephant hunt given the risk and the cost is rediculous, but does anyone know whether this article was accurate? Has anybody run similar tests?

Bored and curious.

analog_peninsula

One member here, StuntPilot, killed a bull elephant with a side brain shot using, IIRC, the .458" 450gr Barnes X bullet, driven at full 460Wby velocity. He resorted to the X bullet when his solid ammo went missing on the trip over.

Again, as I recall, the bullet did not exit.

This would indicate marginal penetration for side brain shots and insuficient penetration for many frontal brain shot situations. For example, when the elephant has its head up and is looking down at the hunter. Lots of trunk and skull to go through to get to the brain with that shot.

In comparison, I have had a .458" 500gr Woodleigh solid at a modest 2025fps or so travel the full length of a tuskless elephant's skull from right front, a bit lower than the eyes, to the exit at the left rear adjacent to the head/neck junction, a bit above ear hole level.

I have also had three of the Woodleighs at the same modest velocity exit on side brain shots. One Woodleigh from a rear quartering brain shot from a bit above the elephant was found embedded in the zygomatic arch on the far side.

Seems pretty apparent to me that the X bullet isn't an elephant bullet and that only real mono or FMJ solids can cut it.

Also, for all the great success that has been had by many with softs for at least the first shot on buffalo, I have had very good results from using only solids, at least when I hit them right. Sample of buffalo is three. Two died very quickly, one, shot poorly, took some tracking.

You can do a search in the African Hunting section to find and read StuntPilots report. He is not an over active poster so it shouldn't be difficult to find if you search using his screen name. I beleive the reoprt would be about a year old. He provided details and photos of the bullet, IIRC.

JPK

I went and looked for StuntPilots report and had trouble finding it. Here it is:
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=...=259103633#259103633

The bullet was a 450gr X out of a 460Wby and did not exit.

JPK

I interpreted his results slightly differently. With the increased frontal area of the semi-expanded X, it doesn't surprise me that the elasticity of the skin on the far side stopped the bullet. The key issue to me appeared to be that the bone was completely penetrated.

Just splitting hairs, in any event. I really appreciate your update.

analog_peninsula

Yes, I see your point about the elasticity of the skin stopping the expanded bullet. Still, the the X bullet's trip through the elephant's head needed all of the bountiful energy it started with just to cross the skull. Even the lowly - for the purpose - 45/70 will do this with a solid.

There is no large amount of solid bone that needs to be penetrated with a side brain shot. Much more solid bone for a frontal shot, that and the potential to need to shoot low on the trunk rules out any expanding bullet, IMO. For an example of needing to shoot low on the trunk, see AspenHillAdventures post regarding her tuskless hunt (in African Hunting I believe, you'll need a search though, its about a year old). She needed to shoot the elephant 18" below eye level to accomplish her frontal brain shot. Good series of photos in the post too.

JPK

Saeed used Barnes 'X' bullets on several elephant (and dozens of buffalo) with excellent results.

George

On frontal brain shots?

JPK

Driving a 450 gr bullet at full-house Wby velocities isn't the way solids are intended to be use so why is that a direct comparison? The initial impact at that velocity would be sure to cause maximum upset early in the bullet's path and reduce potential penetration accordingly.

Second, were your solids were 450 gr or 500? I think a 500 gr x-bullet shot at 2150 would perform much closer to a solid than a 450 at 2700.

500 grs Barnes X in .458 Lott at 2350 f/s:
Well placed side brain shot on bull elephant: Bullet penetrated fully and exited.
500 grs. Woodleigh: same behaviour.
500 grs Swift A-frame: Bullet stuck in the head, no exit.
Image may be found on my website.

You can use the Barnes X as a solid. if cutting some mm off the nose. The hydrostatic pressure than is to low for expansion and mushrooming.

Norbert,

Whats your opinion of an unmodified X bullet on a frontal brain shot?

Would the velocity make a difference, in your opnion? With either a fronatal or side brain shot?

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Whats your opinion of an unmodified X bullet on a frontal brain shot?

JPK,
I never would use X bullets for ele head shots. Especial frontal shots may not reach the brain.
The side shot mentioned above was only an experimental one. I don´t know wether the petals sheared off or the mushroomed bullet went through.