Had a lad out here earlier this year who was using an M1 Garand converted to use a box Magazine and fire .458 Win.

A very soft recoiling rifle for a round of this power - Kicked less than many a .375.

Somebody asked where he could get one ....

The maker is Jim Jones on email pounder233@comcast.net


He also does a 9,3x62 with a ten round mag- just about what the doctor ordered

I saw a BAR which started out as a .338 Win. convertyed to .458 Win. It worked quite well!

Was this the one you were talking about? http://www.gokart.net/shop-utopia/mccann/rifles/458garand/458garand.html

I think it was Jack Lott who first built a .458 on the BAR. I remember reading the article years ago.

The very thing

Can you imagine this rifle chambered in 375 Ruger?
There's a proper use for one!

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

...So , how much are the basic 06 Garand rifle for them to start with I wonder ....Ganyana ,,,How much did it weigh ??..It looks like a bear guides dream rifle ....

Dave Clay of Texas (lever conversion specialist!) is wrking on a BAR for me to be converted to 50/110 or 458 Lott,your choice! Doing mine first and then a few others..cost not sure yet,will drop out magazine any capacity you want..I am thinking 5 rounder!

How about a short Barret m82 in .50 cal.
That would be quite fun!!!!


Cheers,

André

/

http://www.gokart.net/shop-utopia/mccann/rifles/rifles.html

I've been toying one of these in the M1 Garand.

Nobody has addressed the semi-auto restriction Alf mentioned? I'd rather play army with Harold Wolf's Jungle Carbine bolt action in .458 WinMag. The laminated wood handguards are cute.

Alf,

Its funny you mention a semi-auto .505 because I do remember seeing a link posted in the Big Bore forum for a company that makes them. As best I recall, the rifles were massive stainless-and-laminate monstrosities. Didn't really seem practical IMHO.

But...I guess its the perfect thing for a guy who has it all. Kinda like that double barrel bolt action that someone posts on here about every six months...

/

Rifle weighed about 9lbs. roghly the same as my M70 in .458 lott.

The problem with bigger rounds than the .458 is that any semi Auto begins to get a bit long in the action.

As anybody who has read any of my work knows I favour light, fast handling rifles and accurate shot placement above power. I am no fan of the .458, but this rifle was certainly well usuable. If I could easily obtain one in either 9,3x62 or .375 Ruger I would love to give it a go as a PH's working rifle.

........Thats really amazeing .,., In boot camp I had to pack around a Garand as my parade weapon.....[ It was the weapon the Coast Guard used to try to kill recruits by makeing them pack the lead filled things every where ...] They weighed over 11 lbs with the bore poured full of lead..,., 9 lbs puts it in the Gotta Have catagory ...The 338 version would be even more genrally useful ......

It's really too bad that a semi-auto Garand would be illegal in so much of the world. It occurred to me on my last hunting trip, which was successful overall but I missed one shot trying to find my safety, that Garand style rifles could cover my every need. From an accurized mini-14 up to the 458 Garand, I'd have it all on one basic platform. Same safety, same trigger, same basic operating system. I'd only have to remember to either load a clip from the top or a box magazine from the bottom. Somehow, I think I could do that.

It's too bad that the world's governments don't see things as clearly.

At least Zim alows semi Auto's

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
At least Zim alows semi Auto's

This I did not know! I'm reading this, thinking hey, I've looked into this but it's a waste of time. But not in Zim? Hell, if you can use it this is THE ticket. Or a fine double.

Spoke with Richard McCann today about building these. I'm gonna have one made as soon as some dust settles. 500 rounds thru the one with the pretty tan/brown lam stock and no issues whatsoever. Stock is from Boyd, regular M1 Garand laminate stock. Down side is terms and turnaround. He wants the M1 and 1/2 down, $1250, up front and it won't take more than a year to get it back, but not much less. That's a long time for someone to sit on a small pile of money. Compare that to a fine double gun ordered out of Italy; a third to start the order, a third when it comes time to stock it and a third to ship it when done.

Show boat,

Did they say how long the barrel was, and what ammo and velocity they were getting?

Is the .458 the one that is ported in the photo?

The NM sight would give you a very precise zero, but I guess you would want a very large diameter apeture for the NM hood, or maybe use it without?

Does it use a regular en-block clip???

I can hear it ping when empty now.

Ganyana, is this the ultimate culling machine?

Andy

You know I forgot to ask if the Garand clip was retained but I'd eat my hat if it were still used. No way it'll work, he must construct a proper magazine. When you click on the 458 page they are all 458s to my knowledge. They will port or install a comp but PH's hate them and I'm not sure it needs it. It think barrel length is 20". The sight setup would be ideal. The main reason ghost ring sights don't work on bolt guns is that they are mounted to far from the eye or they're not made big enough.

Actually I just tried loading 5 458WMs into a clip. They fit and stack but are not secure. Dunno now. I think there are some specialty 5 rnd clips out there and maybe he uses those. It's stated that the mag holds 4.

I suppose one of the semi-auto versions of the military BAR would make a fun .458 if you don't mind packing 20 lbs.

Remeber that the first shot is the only one that is important.. the seconds ( 2th 3 th 4 th )
is not gone help you much if the first isnt right.

My only 2 cents worth is!! Make you first shot "GOOD" whit the biggest rifle you can handle.. Then it is right! And the animal dont go far!
//OK

Thanks Showbart,

I see now they are all 458's on that page.

I wondered about the ported one because my brother had a BM-59 once which is sort of like a Tanker Garand and with its short barrel needed a gas booster contraption on the muzzle.

I see these have an adjustible gas port in front of the gas block assembly now.

I think its cool and suspect it would have fairly mild recoil and a quick follow up shot.

I knew Jack Lott slightly and he did indeed make a commercial .458 BAR. (Not the kind with a 20 round magazine!)

Andy

No, you have a choice of a detachable box or an integral Mauser type mag- The one I saw had the detachable mag.

Overkill - the real advantage of one of these rifles is the manageable recoil, not so much a fast back up shot- although many a PH would appreciate that feature

On the elephant cull's Mike La-grange used regular Garands in 30-06 with A square Ammo. Clem Cotsee used soviet Draganov snipers rifles with the scopes removed and the butt lengthend.

For most of the buffalo culls I used a 1951 Bruno in 9,3x62 (an issue rifle) or my own Obendorf Mauser in the same caliber. One of those Garands in 9,3 would be just about Ideal! They have a 10 rnd box mag!!! And it is quick change.

The lure of this for me is fast follow up shots. I'd like to carry this on a tuskless hunt. Then too, the urge to hunt this and other DG with a double rifle is a more passionate desire.

I saw one and would almost trade my seat in hell for one. I believe they cost about 3000usd plus the donor M1. The original M1 weighs 9.5 lbs dry and I do not think that the rifle I saw was much different in weight

I'd sure hate to have a slam-fire. My old (and gone) M-1 used to double once or twice every few clips. That would be no fun at all!

It's $2500 plus the M1, so $3K if you can get a CMP Garand.

Any rifle of this type that slam fires as many times as mentioned above is a dangerous POS, poorly assembled and headspaced, and should not be considered along with properly funtioning rifles.

It's definitely on my toy list... but I doubt Santa thinks I've been that good this year... esp. given the amount of rifles that have been following me home recently -- every time I see Pelosi or Clintoon on TV, I have an urge to go buy something high-capacity, and meant to frighten Socialists...

quote:

Originally posted by Showbart:
It's $2500 plus the M1, so $3K if you can get a CMP Garand.

Any rifle of this type that slam fires as many times as mentioned above is a dangerous POS, poorly assembled and headspaced, and should not be considered along with properly funtioning rifles.

You're absolutely right and that is what Blue Sky was importing and selling back when Garands first came back from Korea; junkl! I sent it to Jim Brockman, had it completely reworked and fitten with a scout scope and synthetic stock for hog hunting. Great rifle after it got worked over.

As someone who has built and shot a whole bunch of Nat match Garands, this is one real bad idea! The garand action was evolved around the 30-06 and its power level and never designed for a magnum case. Do you know why many Garand receivers are "two toned"? They were separately heat treated after parkerizing as a method to keep the heels of the receiver from blowing out after battering by the bolt. Magnumize that? No way. How about that op rod,some folks have unfortunately learned it can become a mighty sharp spear. The garand was designed and optimized for a pressure curve optimized around LC Ball ammo. Even the exact location of the barrel gas hole is based on a reliable and safe pressure curve. I learned not to mess with any of that. Oh yes look real carefully at the locking lugs. Real strong huh! Oh yes I also read about Hatchers 100K test of the garand. Must of been the one that survived out of 100 tested. Slam fires, oh yes, garands are finicky about primers too! Their lots of fun when a out of battery slam fire happens. Kaboom! Sound of metal hitting the floor and lots of bleeding, swearing etc.
This would be the last action in the world I'd choose for a semi-auto .458 win mag with a much better choice being the BAR. Unfortunately, Garand actions are cheap and the basic idea is cool so somebody will get something to sorta work and proclaim they have solved the problem.
I'd never shoot one of those myself.-Rob

The op rod is shortened, gas port moved and a new gas system is installed. I spoke with Richard McCann and there haven't been any reported problems. I don't know how many he's made. He's got 500 rounds thru the black/tan one on the site.

I'd rather SEE it made on a commercial BAR. But I haven't seen any real info on those much less have it explained as to how it's all done. McCann does a good job of this. If he's wrong I couldn't say.

Here we have one gunsmith saying that another gunsmith can't do what he's already done. I'd suggest you give him a call and let him know your opinion.

OH, I know exactly what he did and exactly why he did it. Just remember, rd 510 could be the last! I'm not questioning his worksmanship, talent or the fact it is a cool idea. Like most fiddled with garands, some work and some don't. However, just One out of battery slam fire will wreck your whole day. I'm saying that I would never trust it and sure as hell would never make one for someone else.Between Springfield Armoury, H&R, Winchester, International Harvester etc they made over 6 million garands and had lots and lot of problems that had to be overcome( they called them revision numbers). They were designed for the 30-06 power level and thats the level they should stay at. Hop em up and expect to pay the piper. Just my 2 cents on this one.-rob