Big Bores and Reduced loads...who uses them?

If you do use reduced loads in the big bores do you use such loads in the field?

Mike

I've been tearing myself back and forth over getting a big-medium bore and using reduced loads.

Last night and today I decided not to. Tomorrow however I might have changed my mind.

I used 405 grain Remington bullets with around 40 grains of RL7 in a 458 Win mag for my groundhog gun one summer and had a blast. I didn't have a chrono back then but the bullet seemed to move about 150 yards per second. My cousin insisted you could see the bullets in flight sometimes. Even at long shots you could frequently see the dust fly and correct for follow up shots. My best was a 275 pace shot that took 5 shots to walk in. I think we got a few deer with this load too.

Mike--I use reduced loads by using slower powder in my wildcats, I never go below 90% fill on powder.Slow surplus powder is cheap, and no monkeying with fillers or worrying about detonation.Ed.

Sure I have used a "reduced" load all the time with my 450 Rigby to hunt non dangerous game. For this particular rifle, I usually stuff it with a case full of H4831SC and use 405-grain JSP (for the 45-70) seated way out to make a good light shooting load.

Quote:

---

Big Bores and Reduced loads...who uses them?

If you do use reduced loads in the big bores do you use such loads in the field?

Mike

---

I've shot 470 gr cast pistol bullets out the 500 Jeffrey at 1000-1100 fps, quite enjoyable! Once I get the Lott in shooting order, I'll be doing the same with paper patched 45 cal cast pistol bullets.

I like the 500 NE and have used reduced loads on medium game before with good results. 450gr lead flat nose over 35gr of IMR4198 and then fill with enough dacron to keep the powder in the bottom. I do not know the real velocity but I would suspect it is in 45-70 ranges with a similar bullet weight. Maby 17-1800 fps, but never chronied so I do not know.

I only shoot full charges in my guns...If I want a reduced load I shoot and hunt with my 25-35 or 6x45....

I see no reason to shoot game with a reduced load in big bores, why would you is my question?

If one just likes to dink around with his gun then that is certainly justifiable, but I see no other legetimate reason...

You will never get over recoil by shooting reduced loads, just the opposite is best...shoot a 458 Lott if you want to get proficient with a 416 or 375...

Ray,



The idea of reduced loads, at least for me, is not to practice with mastering recoil in mind.



Reduced loads can and do add another dimension to the rifle that a second rifle in a small calibre might not achieve. For example, a load I have used in several different 375s over the years is between 39 and 41 grains of H4227, Fed 210 and 220 Hornady flat noses seated to the cannelure. Velocity is around 2100 f/s.



OK, so it is basically a replica of the 375 Win Big Bore but with some differences.



1) Like all very low pressure loads the muzzle crack is less than the smaller case loaded to the same ballistics with full pressure loads.



2) In an accurate 375 it will group under an inch with 10 shot groups, way out of the league of the 375 lever gun.



3) For activities like spotlight shooting it has heaps more thump than a 223 while at the same time having a total absence of "crack" to it.



4) Case life and barrel life is just this side of "forever"



5) Like most similar loads they are just nice to use...something about them is different to smaller case/calibre loaded to full pressure. In a powerful rifle like the 375 they almost have a similar feel to what you get idling about the place in a big V8 as compared to revving the guts out of a small 4 cyclinder car.



Mike

I do. And I believe in them for a couple of reasons.The more you shoot a rifle [especially in the field hunting, not at the "bench"] the better you will be with it. Reduced loads are easier on your rifle and on your shoulder. Also for shooting lesser big game you get better results with the "proper" bullet. A Buffalo bullet will not give as quick a kill on a deer or pig as a bullet designed for lighter game.
For instance in my 450/400 300gr .025jkt Hawk bullets shoot to the same aim point as the 400 Woodleighs, and do a much better job on the lighter game. [They shoot to the same point of aim as the 400gr in Rays EX 450/400 too, I tested them last weekend. ] In my 450 No2 I use 350 Hornady RN for deer and pigs with excellent results. They hit the same place as the 480 and 500gr. bullets. These loads have less recoil too.
I use reduced loads in my 300 Mag and in my 375 Mag for deer too. You do not need "full power" loads for deer hunting with the big guns.
When I had 458 Mags I shot 350 and 400gr bullets at reduced power levels in them too.
It doubles the effectiveness of the [usually] expensive DGR rifle and allows you to "train" with your big rifle under actual hunting conditions.
Seems like a win/win situation to me.
It has allowed me to really enjoy many of my rifles and learn things about them I otherwise would not have discovered.

You can download a big bore and make a fine deer or pig rifle.

The same can't be said for hyperloading a small bore.

Mike,

I am in agreement with Ray on this one. I do load my big bores with lighter bullets, but I do not change to a faster powder when I do this. So in a way that is a reduced load.

Scott

Mike,

We use a LOT of reduced loads here in the range.

Never used any in the field.

Well, ok once, I used a 550 grain cast bullet in a 460 Weatherby to shoot a feral pigeon.

Saeed,

It does not suprise me that you use a lot of reduced loads. Much of your loading data starts with very low loadings. You also choose to load a 375/404 down to what a 375 H&H can do (plus 100-150 f/s) with Reloader 15.

Mike

I like to shoot 45 grains of xmp5744 and a 500 grain cast bullet in the 500 NE. That's basically a 45-70 load. It helps to use such a load to get in a lot of offhand shooting practice without getting beat to hell by recoil. However, I would never use such a wimpy load on anything but the smallest of duikers.

Mike and 450 No.2,

I am aware of all the reasoning and if it blows your skirt up then have at it, and nothing wrong with that...

I only stated MY position on the subject as the question was asked....but I do feel some of the reasoning you guys have stated while partly factual to an extent is more of an example of justification than anything else....

Point in question!, As to light loads, 300 gr. whatever killing light game and pigs any better than a 400 gr. Woodleigh, now that must be a statement based on theory, because I have shot everything from a few Duiker, Bushbuck, Kongoni, Reedbuck, many Impala, Zebra, warthog and others all the way up to Cape Buffalo etc/ with the 400 gr. Woodleigh at 2150 FPS in the 450-400 and it dumps the small stuff, medium stuff in the dirt on the spot most of the time or at least after a very short run with a very good blood trail and bullets expand, but even with solids it does a good quick job on them..

I have read in magazines and heard this ole tale of justification for reduced hunting loads for many years and its really not applicable and is based on theory not fact, my opine is based only on my experience in the field from observation and actual killing of game...I have to accept that as anyone of you would under the same circumstances..that is how each of us arrives at our conclusion, so please allow me that...

One does not have to justify his actions with his rifle to me, but if one does then he must accept the response and take it as good advise or s--t can it..

Now as to recoil, the questionere stated recoil was a problem and that he wanted a reduced load for that reason therefore I suggest an alternative to reduced loadings which accomplish nothing, again my opine, if that were true one could learn to shoot a 500 N.E. by simply shooting a 30-06..

BTW, I even hunt jackrabbits and rockchucks on ocassion with my doubles and yep! with full loads...

Bottom line? to each his own.

I for one plan on using a lot in my Rigby, mainly 350 cast at about 2000 fps. Why, so I can afford to shoot it more. Besides, more is not needed on steel plates, lol. I like to shoot my hunting rifles in cast bullet silhouette matches for fun.

I do have one arguement in favor of reduced loads for hunting purposes. I knew a gent years ago that had moved to Texas from Alaska. He had one rifle, a .338 win mag. Where we hunted in Tx the deer were smallish and 100 yards was a long shot. He couldn't afford another rifle at the time and hoped to be moving back to AK soon so didn't want to sell his .338. The perfect bullet then was the Hornady 200 grain flatnose designed for the .33 Win. We loaded up a bunch of these and they performed flawlessly. Those pills launched at full tilt would have been way too destructive. And factory loads had bullets that were too heavily constructed in his opinion. I thought that what we did made perfect sense.

HI Ray,
A 400 grain Woodleigh at 2150 is a reduced load and people want to shoot them out of their big bores because of the way they perform at that velocity. You've seen the posts that have come up with the destroyed bullet syndrome from bullets being driven faster than they were designed. Remember your relpies to their post "Duh too much velocity" or what ever.Most often with the Woodleighs. If I shoot them in my 470 I have to load them down or else they self destruct. Reason enough for me to shoot reduced loads.
Take care
Dave

Saves dollars. More practice. Two good reasons right there.

That said, I personally seldom play with reduced loads. But I am looking into it for my 470. I just can't afford to feed it full house loads and premium bullets all the time. I sure do love to shoot it though! Some reduced loads with 475 Linebaugh bullets could be just the ticket.

Cheers,
Canuck

I use reduced loads insofar as reducing jacket thickness or bullet toughness eg- lever action bullets but push them pretty fast anyway. In 375H&H I fill the case up with Ar2209 eq (IMR4350)- to get rid of the stuff since I acquired bulk amounts of it a few years ago.

Advantages are less cost, minor reduction in recoil but neither I care about at all.
The main one is the blasting effect on feral game.
I feel a bullet has suffered a grevious failure if it leaves too many edible sections of the game.

I shoot 76 grs of reloader 15 with 350 gr Speer mat tip.Its fun to shoot and still 2400 fps.I have shot this load many of hundreds of times out of my 416 rem mags.I also introduce other shooter to big bores with this load.It feels like heavy 12 ga dove load but funner to shoot .Its just a slow push.

I don't use "reduced loads", but have been expermenting with "plinking loads using the convection ignition method.

To date I have loaded the 444 Marlin using 215 grain cast bullet driven be Blue Dot poweder in a M94. Veloctiy is in the 1100 FPS range.

I have been working up some loads for my 470 using 500 grain cast bullets driven by Tite Wad. So far regulation is a problem, but I will try other powders and see where it leads me.

Have been shooting a 505 Gibbs for about 10 years now.

Have one full house load for the soft nose bullets, @ 2500 fps.

Have two reduced loads , one for a 325 JHP bullet at 1300 fps, another with a 600 grn Hard cast bullet at 1800 fps.

Have lots of fun with the reduced loads.

Jim Wisner
Custom Metalsmith

I have found an answer to lower cost big bore ammo. Paper patched bullets. I had a .451 500 grain bullet mold made for my Alex. Henry replica muzzle loader. I paper patch these for my 458 Win Mag. Wheel weights are able to withstand full power loads. I don't know how fast they could potentially be driven, but shoot very accurately in my rifle. I haven't tried them for hunting, but I am convinced that they would work very well with a waterproofed patch.

MIKE -

I am a very big fan of developing reduced loads for big bores, since I discovered a powder that has been specifically engineered for this type of application. This is of course the very unusual XMP 5744 from Accurate Arms. Fillers are not required even with low load densities and it is exceptionally easy to ignite with consistent velocities.

It has no coating, 20% NG, and is a large diameter extruded powder with a bulk density of 0.838. It actually has NO burn rate, as it is "self-sustaining"...i.e. the burn rate is unaffected by pressure. I use it to duplicate the 35 whelen and 375 H&H in the 375 RUM as well as for a number of 458 Win Mag loads that are 200 fps slower than conventional loads with 20 grains less powder. Favorite to date is a 400 grainer at 2177 fps with only 50.5 grs XMP 5744. Recoil is a dead ringer for a 338 Win, but the similarity stops there!

.

As a matter of fact I am going to load up some "reduced" 375's right now. 235 Speer over 64 gr of IMR 3031. 270 Hornady over 64gr of 3031 and some 300gr Hornady over 60gr of 3031. These are for a test and use at the deer lease for wilp pigs.

I do reduced loads for the cheap of it. I bought a jar full of cast bullets for the 40-65 at the last gun show and paper patch them to use in my .416 Taylor. Loaded over a lightly compressed charge of Goex FFG and a wad they group about 1.5 inches at 50 yards and about 1 inch below the sights. Loads of fun and it's more than just cheap, I can tell everyone that I did it for a nostalgic load for my big bore so that I could make big clouds of smoke when I'm plinking.

I'm not experienced or smart enough to know why I shouldn't shoot reduced loads. I'm new to medium bores, but I'll tell you why I plan to shoot reduced loads:
1.) Because I can't afford to own a large "battery" of guns and versatility is important. (Until safari I plan to site in one 1.75X6 for reduced loads, and an identical one for hunting loads, both in QR rings. Interchangability is a snap.
2.) To introduce my teenage son to larger bore rifles without creating fear from the getgo.
3.) To get to know my rifle well and to experiment with its
potential in full.
4.) Because I intend to shoot well into my elder years and don't want to blow out a rotator cuff or cause premature arthritis from shooting a lot of "overkill" loads for practice.
5.) Reduced costs (already mentioned).
6.) Longevity of hearing (increased decibels and hearing loss are directly related and cumulative).
7.) Because it's fun!

Brass: Win
Primer: Fed 215
Powder: 38.0 gn SR 4759
Bullet: 200gn Sierra FP
Est vel: 2100-2125fps
Verify this load first!!!

Can be uploaded to "normal" hunting velocities with proper load
(See Sierra loading manual)

jetblueman
A most excellent plan

I've fooled around some with XMP5744 and 350 Cast/GC's and 350 Mag-Tips in my 416 RMag, at 1,900 - 2,200 FPS, as well as some of Hodgon's "60%" loads of 4895 with the 350 Mag-Tips.

Since all the elephants and cape buffs cleared out of my part of PA when they heard I got the 416, I have no real need for the full bore loads.

It's fun, I like to do it, and I'm going to keep on doing it.

R-WEST