The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 416 cal,410 grs @ 2150Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Oh, then proceed as planned! :-) | |||
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+ 1, Experienced this first hand on my first DG hunt,shot a buff at close range with a light 470,the buff was only about 2-3 yrds away when I fired the second barrel,the recovery time was too long,another time with a heavier rifle shooting a 500-416,I was able to shoot both barrels before the buff recovered from my first shot,I killed it where it stood,first shot was in the heart & as it bucked down,I spined it with the second shot. DRSS | |||
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Originally by Bill73:
I LIKE that exciting story Bill!!!  D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
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Beats having to wrestle them like Begno :-) | |||
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Aye aye capitaine Biebs  & besides I could'nt hope to match the great Mr.Begno at buff wrestling,that man is a legend on Ar,when the bullets don't finish the job,who do you call? The buff buster !!!DRSS | |||
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Yup, a Buff is no match for a surly ole' Cajun :-) | |||
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I really don't know what a stopping rifle is. I think I had one when I was in the army cause my jeep had this rifle mounted on it and from the few times I shot it I would easily assume it would stop an Elephant in it's tracks and quite probably push it back some. I think it was called a recoiless rifle so it was definitely a rifle. As to whether that 416Rigby load is adequate, the last Elephant I shot on my final safari I look at the tusks as I write this and it was shot with a 416Rigby with a 410gr Woodleigh solid. I don't know that it stopped him as he walked on for a while but when we skinned him he was surely dead. The first elephant I ever shot I shot with a 375H&H with a 300gr Woodleigh solid. It was a point blank head on shot. The elephant immediately sat down on his rear, which ,to me,would indicate I stopped him. Of course he immediately stood up and whirled and ran off, but he actually was stopped as to me stopped means to cease forward motion, and stopped he was. How much does an Elephant weigh? If you calculate his speed then calculate his ke it will be KE=MVsquare. I don't think there is a shoulder weapon in existance that can match that force. I think an Elephant stops forward motion because he chooses to. If you destroy the brain you cause all nervous system function to cease therby causing the legs to not propel the elephant forward. All this BS about huge stopping calibers is just that - BS. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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You are quite correct that if you destroy the brain you stop the train eerr I mean the elephant,but if you have a near miss? I think I would prefer a caliber with as high a TKO as possible that I could handle well,it will not stop the animal,but it will surely buy you more time to finish it off. Before anybody points it out to me again, a 416 cal,410 grs @ 2150 is not a stopper & I agree,but it should make for a nice low recoil killer for sure. DRSS | |||
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I agree. Not exactly sure what the energy of a 400 gr 416 rn or fn bullet is at 100 yards when started at 2400 fps. But it's probly around 2150 fps. From everything I've seen and heard it still kills well if put in the right spot. Probably the only thing you may suffer from is a self imposed range restriction. . Is your model 71 a long or short tang? Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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It's a long tang. DRSS | |||
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+1, totaly agree. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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That will make for a nice , quick pointing rifle. A very good friend has a 450 Alaskan in a short tang. Compared to his other model 71s that are all long tang it's not too fast for me . Due to having too much wood where my right thumb muscle is. It cants the rifle to the left quite a bit when I go for a quick shot. Course , that could be fixed with some stock work. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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I'm of the opinion that 2125 FPS with a 40 caliber 400 gr. soft of solid, depending on the game being hunted, that is IS a stopper, and to say otherwise is nonsence, and shows a lack of experience. I'm not sure what a "stopper" is other than a coined termed. In reality a "stopper" that is 100% is a brain or spine shot..end of story, and I'll debate that until hell freezes over.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Hey buddy How is this project going. Get it barreled yet? Need an update. Nitro "Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall DRSS, BASA 470 Krieghoff, 45-70 inserts, 12 ga paradox, 20 ga DR Simson/Schimmel, 12 ga DR O/U Famars, 12 ga DR SXS Greener | |||
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Gun is at SSK industries,they have the reamer,waiting for the barrel to get there now,will be a few months before this project is done,the dies will proabably be three months as well. DRSS | |||
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I have shot that load on buffalo and it worked fine..Mostly I shoot my .416 Rem. with a 400 gr. bullet at 2350 to 2400 FPs, but I couldn't tell any difference..at 2150 FPS its a gentle touch and sometimes makes for better shooting, especially to those that don't shoot a lot..Its a good load and it worked way back when and it works just as good today.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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My CZ 416 Rigby was a real education. I had some custom loads of 400 gr Woodleighs with AR 2213 SC (H4831SC) and these only did 2280 fps but had a stiff recoil. I got 2500 fps with AR2209 (H4350) and the same bullets but lighter recoil - 8 grains less powder! I finally settled on 2400 fps for manageable recoil & good accuracy off sticks. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Fairly much the same Nakihunter. Load I settled on shoots the 400grain @2450 and the Hydros at 2500 with the same powder charge. | |||
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I have had very good results with 350 gr Monometals (CEB in my case) at 2400fps out of my 416 B&M. Nice recoil and got complete penetration on side head and heart shots on very large bodied bull elle. Also end to end penetration on bull buff, breaking both pelvis and spine. Cant ask for much more than that. "The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane." Mark Twain TANSTAAFL www.savannagems.com A unique way to own a piece of Africa. DSC Life NRA Life | |||
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Sometimes if we get carried away and just have to squeeze every last drop of velocity out of some of these cartridges, we actually impede penetration. I have done some testing over the years and ever caliber so far has a penetration limit and velocity combined with bullet construction is always the culprit. A .375 loaded down to 2400 to 2500 FPS has always given me the best penetration, and rounds tested at 2200 FPS gave the best penetration of all, but I feel, like in most things, moderation is the secret... I would face any animal on earth with a 416, 400 gr. bullet of proper construction at 2150 FPS, but would prefer 2300 to 2400 FPS. To believe that a 500 gr. bullet can knock a animal the size of an elephant off course is doubtful, and I know it has for whatever reason in some instance but not in most, I would hate to depend on it. I still feel like a properly placed bullet is the ONLY sure winner in every case. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Bill73 Any progress or updates. Nitro "Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall DRSS, BASA 470 Krieghoff, 45-70 inserts, 12 ga paradox, 20 ga DR Simson/Schimmel, 12 ga DR O/U Famars, 12 ga DR SXS Greener | |||
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No news yet,but to my knowledge the dies have been ordered & so has the barrel,I will give it a couple of weeks before I send them an inquiry,don't want to rush them. DRSS | |||
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Ok its been a few weeks. Die's? Do you mean reamers? Nitro "Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall DRSS, BASA 470 Krieghoff, 45-70 inserts, 12 ga paradox, 20 ga DR Simson/Schimmel, 12 ga DR O/U Famars, 12 ga DR SXS Greener | |||
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SSK has a reamer on hand but the reloading dies are a custom job thru RCBS. DRSS | |||
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AND ? Nitro "Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall DRSS, BASA 470 Krieghoff, 45-70 inserts, 12 ga paradox, 20 ga DR Simson/Schimmel, 12 ga DR O/U Famars, 12 ga DR SXS Greener | |||
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Waiting on dies,should be anyday now,gun is scattered all over the shop as per my last mail  DRSS | |||
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AND ??? "Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall DRSS, BASA 470 Krieghoff, 45-70 inserts, 12 ga paradox, 20 ga DR Simson/Schimmel, 12 ga DR O/U Famars, 12 ga DR SXS Greener | |||
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Will let you know when I have news to share,thanks. DRSS | |||
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I saw a nice Carl Gustav 20mm recoiless rifle that looked like just the ticket for dangerous game hunting but on further investigation I found that flame tends to come out both sides and light the grass on fire. Probably a bad thing in the summer in Africa, right? Back to the drawing board. I was imagining a 2300gr North Fork expanding solid at 3000fps. Would have done the trick I think. | |||
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For quite some time we developed 416 Remington loads using 410gr Woodleighs at 2300fps to 2330fps to get both the Soft and FMJ to shoot into the same point of impact. The idea being to duplicate the old Rigby load without any pressure Got back a lot of pics from the teams using this combo. Can't remember anyone saying they had an issue with any 416 loaded in this manner. | |||
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A stopper is what used to hold the water in our old bathtub at the ranch! The other stopper is a brain or spine shot.  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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OK Buddy I gave you a month + News? Nitro "Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall DRSS, BASA 470 Krieghoff, 45-70 inserts, 12 ga paradox, 20 ga DR Simson/Schimmel, 12 ga DR O/U Famars, 12 ga DR SXS Greener | |||
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Yessir, I will contact JD monday & get some news DRSS | |||
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Cool Looking forward to it. Nitro "Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall DRSS, BASA 470 Krieghoff, 45-70 inserts, 12 ga paradox, 20 ga DR Simson/Schimmel, 12 ga DR O/U Famars, 12 ga DR SXS Greener | |||
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UPDATE? Call you this weekend. Things got a little crazy. Nitro "Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall DRSS, BASA 470 Krieghoff, 45-70 inserts, 12 ga paradox, 20 ga DR Simson/Schimmel, 12 ga DR O/U Famars, 12 ga DR SXS Greener | |||
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The rifle is finished,Jd at SSK is very happy with it,I should have it in my hands & shooting at the range next week end,the gun comes with a fireform load as well as 20 fireformed cases. DRSS | |||
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Now you da man! | |||
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To answer the original question, it absolutely is. Have killed many, many buffalo and scrub bulls with those numbers, including delicate situations - one of which, a buffalo, was only four feet away when he launched. Edit: My sincere apologies. It has been a long and difficult day, and I didn't read the velocity correctly in the title. My experience has been with 2350fps. Sorry. | |||
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UPDATE PLEASE.. Nitro "Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall DRSS, BASA 470 Krieghoff, 45-70 inserts, 12 ga paradox, 20 ga DR Simson/Schimmel, 12 ga DR O/U Famars, 12 ga DR SXS Greener | |||
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The gun is here,weighs in at 8.9 oz,very impressed with the balance & how it comes to the shoulder,in fact shoulders better than my other lever actions,I was on the way to to a hog hunt when the gun came in,I took it along & reloaded some fireforming loads for it while I was on the hunt with my friends,shot some formed brass as well,got it upto 1950 fps with the hornady 400's,accuracy was not all that great as I was shooting sights & my eyes are not that good,I have a dokter sight on it now & will head back to the range tomorrow with some reloads,all in all,I am quite happy with the work done to the rifle & I think I will be able to attain my goals with this gun. DRSS | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 416 cal,410 grs @ 2150
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