The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores .416 cal barrel twist rateGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I'm in the process of ordering a barrel in .416 cal and would like some input on a suitable rifling twist rate. The load will be a 400gr bullet at ~2200fps for hunting out to 150 yards. I'm thinking 1 in 10" or 1 in 12" twist to stabilise the bullet? Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks Rhodes DRSS | ||
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Rhodes First, I received and tested the 9.3s that you sent. Find them on the current page of Terminals, if you have not seen already. Second, 416 barrel twist rates. If you are shooting expanding bullets, for accuracy and terminals, you do not need the fast twist rates. Anything I think from 1:12 to 1:16 is fine. My 416 B&Ms are all 1:14. Now, if you get to Terminals--With Solids, the plot thickens. 416 needs a 1:12 twist rate to fully stabilize even a really good 400 gr designed solid, even with a proper meplat. A 400 gr BBW#13 Solid, 67% meplat, does very very well even with a 1:14 twist, depending on velocity. Velocity of 2200-2250 fps 1:14 will terminally stabilize for 90-95% of it's total penetration, and that is more than enough for any mission. 1:12 terminally stabilizes the 400 #13 100% of penetration. If you up velocity to 2400 fps then even 1:14 fully stabilizes the terminals of the bullet. If you are choosing between 1;10 and 1:12, I would go with 1:12, it covers anything you would ever need to do. And it seems you are talking more about expanding bullets than solids, and for accuracy alone, then 1:12 is dandy in my opinion. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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I went with 1 in 10 for mine shoots every thing I put through it into one ragged hole. I normlly go with faster twist for cailber gives ones more options to shoot longer bullets if one wants. | |||
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I'm looking at McGowen Barrels. I just checked their website and for .416 cal they offer a 1 in 10" twist or a 1 in 14" twist so I was off the mark in my original post. Shame, 1 in 12 was sounding like a good compromise. Michael this will be for a double rifle project so ragged hole accuracy is not the goal. More penetration and short range hunting with buffs the ultimate goal. The reason I ask about the twist is that we tested some banded solids that we turned up over here in a 9.3 cal double to see how they would shoot and we noticed slight key holing with the lower velocity loads. Makes me think 1 in 10 might be needed for the slower velocities. p dog shooter, do you mind if I ask what velocities you are shooting at? Cheers Rhodes DRSS | |||
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Rhodes Of the choices you have I would go with the 1 in 10. A 40cal 400gr bullet at 2200fps is plenty enough for any game, and has very soft recoil. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I concur, with the choices 1:10 or 1:14, I would look at 1:10 as well. 1:10 will give you the edge on less than optimum designed solids, or solids with a less than 65% meplat. M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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I have used 1:12" Shilen on a .416 Taylor 1:12" Douglas on a .416 Dakota 1:12" Douglas on a .416 Barnes Supreme (a 1940s oldie, similar to .416 Hoffman, before the .416 resurrection of the 1980s) All good. George Hoffman opined that 1:12" would be next for him as all his rifles in .416 Hoffman had previously been 1:14", but he never got the chance. About all American factory made .416s are 1:14" twist. CZ was 1:16.5" as made in Czech-land for .416 Rigby, like CIP spec for the antique .416 Rigby, but they are making some other .416s now in USA and usually get their barrels from McGowen. Barrett uses a 1:12" twist on their .416 Barrett, but they get the 395-grain VLD bullets up to 3250 fps. You cannot go wrong with 1:10" twist at such slow velocities as 2200 fps with 400 grainers of .416 caliber, even the long monometal hunting bullets, soft or solid. Shorter Woodleigh 400-grainers might be OK in the 1:16.5", but faster would not hurt with them either, unless you are planning on 1000-yard target shooting. Oh, double rifle? Well, faster twist will be better. 1:10" or 1:12", either will do. 1:10": McGowen is back to delivering inside of 6 weeks. 1:12": I'll vouch for Shilen and Douglas, but would prefer Pac-Nor. For about the same money: McGowen 1:10" Pac-Nor 1:12" Those last two would be my picks. In good times either can deliver in 6 weeks, in bad times, whatever the reason, either can take over 6 months, from personal experience. McGowen shipped inside of 5 weeks after my last order for a 1:12" .510-caliber stainless medium target barrel. Got it today. Still waiting on another .510 barrel ordered same day, but requested "Pac-Nor No.6 Sporter Contour" on that one, same twist and same steel. Maybe they had to go make another one from scratch for that one.  http://tanganyikagame.com/index.htm | |||
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Example of terminals with two different twist rates 1:14 and 1:12. Then add velocity to 1:14 as well. First 416 B&M 1:14 twist rate velocity 2250 fps. As you can see, deep, but it was not quite stable, moving a bit off course over the long haul  Now, change to 1:12 twist rate, same cartridge, same bullet, same velocity Dead straight, attribute to "Twist Rate"  Now we take the same Twist Rate, 1:14, and we add velocity. Dead Straight--Attributed to extra velocity.  Both Twist Rate and Velocity are factors of terminals with solids, not the top of the list of factors, however can become very important factors even when the design is excellent, depending on caliber. As caliber goes up, twist rates and velocity become less important. Have seen dead straight excellent performance with the same BBW#13s in larger calibers and slower twists, and less velocity. Meplat takes over in larger calibers. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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NE 450 No2, Michael, Thanks, thats the way I'm leaning. Rhodes DRSS | |||
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Michael your terminal testing is invaluable and has busted a lot of myths for me. Thanks for digging this test out. Rhodes | |||
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Thanks RIP It's good to have some feedback from someone who's ordered the barrels. Being a double I also have to look at the profile to try and keep the weight down and achieve some sort of balance and not be too barrel heavy. Not the easiest thing to do from a catalogue but McGowen have a pretty good range of profiles listed on their website which is why I chose them. Cheers Rhodes DRSS | |||
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