Just curious about this cartridge. Originaly loaded to pressure 13 tons and 2175fps with 480gr bullet. I am just interested to what level it could be loaded in modern doubles (pressure levels like .500/.416- 3100 bars piezzo - 22tons or 2750 bars Copper crusher method - 19.945 tons ) or in single shots in modern brass ? What is water capacity of this round ?

Jiri

Jiri
I can not bring my self to put water in a rifle case... ...but You can get 136grains of IMR4831 in a Bertram 450 No2 case and seat a 500gr. Swift A-Frame to the crimping groove with no compression of the powder.
Barnes shows for the 460 WBY and a 500gr bullet a max load of120gr. of IMR4831.
So in a strong single shot you could increase the velocity, maybe slightly so in a modern double....But there might be a problem. While I have yet to ruin a case[some have been loaded 20 times] everybody else complains about Bertram brass. Mine holds up at the low pressure of normal loads. With a 500grain bullet my rifle shoots good with 100grains of IMR4831 [foam or dacron filler]. The brass might not stand more than one or two highpressure loads, and at @ $100US for 20 cases,that could tun into some money.
Plus if one of your loads ever got into an original double it would no doubt cause injury or death, as well as ruin a fine rifle.

I have a hard time understanding why most everyone wants to "soup up" these big bores to high velocity. It has been well proven that a 40cal, 400 to a 458, 500grain bullet with a SD of around 330 at a velocity of 2100to2150fps is enough for any animal currently on Earth, and the rifles that fire them are comfortable to shoot.
A higher velocity gives the bullet a flatter trajectory, but who needs that when many of your shots are under 50 yards and most all under 100.
You also increase the danger of a bullet failure, and most experts say even solids can react strangely at higher velocity. The recoil makes the rifle kick so bad that you will not want to practice with it. Many days I have shot 50 rounds through my 450 No2 with no ill effects. I just do not see the need for a rifle that kicks so bad that it is not fun to shoot, or one you are afraid to shoot from some of the hunting positions that may crop up, like crouching down to shoot under brush or trees [try that with a T-Rex ] Just my opine.

I am not against experimentation or modern advances....just a man has got to know his limitations.

[ 05-17-2003, 03:16: Message edited by: N E 450 No2 ]

Jiri, according to my sources the case capacity of the 450 NE No2 is ~ 154 - 164 gr of water. Evidently there is a significant variation in case capacity depending upon manufacturer and primer time used.

Axel

Good post, NE450No2, I concur wholeheartedly. Furthermore, the quoted velocities for British NE cartridges are invariably achieved in tight 30" pressure-barrels, a fact which becomes obvious when regulating with modern hand-loads. The vast majority regulate significantly below Kynoch-published velocities.

My .400 Jeffery double is a good example, it regulates perfectly (1.5-inch 6-shot groups at 50 metres with express sights and my eyes)at 1980 fps from the 24" barrels (Yes, its the full 60gr cordite equivalent, not the 55gr 'tropical' load). Published velocity is usually 2125 fps. ...and BTW, that rifle kills big buffalo like lightning with any well-placed shot.

Remembering that the big British NE cartridges achieved their sterling reputations at lower velocities than most Americans regard as 'standard' for the calibre, simply raising their ballistics to the published figure is already a significant improvement.

Pushing them (well) beyond that figure is just plain stupid IMHO. Do it on paper for the academic interest by all means, but in my neck of the woods, we suspect the "T-Rex" phenomenon is just for entertainment-starved individuals who enjoy watching people drop expensive firearms on the concrete and hurt themselves!