I've been toying with a VZ-24 ation that I want to build something pretty big out of. I was leaning to a .416 Taylor, but ran across the Hawk rifles web page and there stuff looks pretty neat. Magnum performance from an '06 based case, from 6mm to .41, the .375 is the one that has me really interested. Anybody out there have any experience with that particular cartridge?

Thanks,
Mark

You might consider the 9.3x62. Its a natural for the VZ/24.

The"Hawk" has been around for years in one form or another with everyone putting there name on it and its variations...Not a good deal except perhaps in a new M-95 Winchester....

I also would opt for a 9.3x62 or even a 9.3x64 now that brass is readily available from Huntingtons....

A VZ-24 gives you a lot of options, but the 9.3x62 is the natural as rail work etc. will probably not be necessary....

I have a drop box 416 built on a VZ-24 by Searcy, and I have built a number of 375 H&H, 375 Chatfield Talyor and 416 Taylors on them....

Ray, How did you do a .375 H&H in the VZ? Did you lengthen the action or open it up? If what I read is correct, the .375 Hawk being based on the '06 case should require minimal (if any) rail work either. I will do some research into the 9.3's, part of my plan (read dream) is to be able to meet the minimun caliber requirement for some African countries, and maintain the integrity of the action.

Thanks,

Mark

I always planned on doing a 375 hawk when the barrel of my 30-06 Enfield goes bad. Should be a minimal of work as the hawk is based on -06 cases.

If the Hawk is an improved, short necked 30-06 case, it's basically a 9.3x62 necked up. I would just do the 9.3 -- in fact I am. Lothar Walther pre-chambered barrels are only $150. You also have factory ammo available, maybe even from some American makers if they can take a HINT from sales so far, as well as cheaper dies.

Good luck,
Todd

P.s. I have found that VZ-24 actions tend to feed 30-06 type cases well, although I don't think you will cram five in there (four fit in mine, three for belted mags).

I have never had a 375 hawk. I did have a 35 whelen ackley, and from that experience, my personal thoughts on improved -06 cases matching the performance of a 2.5" belted case is, you can only achieve that by running high pressures.

If you want magnum performance from a 2.5" case, then use a magnum case to achieve it. I'd stick with your original plan, no need for exspensive dies, and more power then the Hawk will ever achieve. You can launch the lighter 416 bullets plenty fast for flatter trajectory.

RENRAF:
I'd like to try and answer your question "anybody out there have any experience with that particular (375 Hawk) cartridge?"

After talking to Bob Fulton who designed the the 375 Hawk, reading Dave Scovill's article and reviewing the load data that was within the presure limits of the 06 case, I had Fred build one for me and have never regretted my decision.

I worked up to the load listed in the artice of 59 grains of H4895 and ten shots averaged 2700 fps with a 250 grain bullet. This cartridge is very nice to shoot and easy to reload for and feeds well through my gun with no work on the action.

The gun was a 700 Classic that now wears a #4 Douglas barrel about 25 inches long and is about .650 at the muzzle.

You will notice the similar weight and speed of this loaded round to the 338 win mag (with less powder, recoil)which I used to shoot. This cartridge does make an impression on the animals I have "harvested" with it. I'm switching from Gamekings to Northforks this fall and may not find any of those in the animals harvested either.

If you want to stick with the '06 case, this is a great cartridge as is the 9.3 that Ray recommends. I think the cost would be similar.
RCBS has FL dies, Fred has loaded ammo and brass or you can quickly make your own out of 35 whelen brass like I do. Also, there are quite a few different bullet choices in .375 to choose from.


Have fun!

Snapper, Thanks for sharing the experience. I appreciate all the opinions offered by everyone. I may also build a 9.2, but I really want a .375 in a standard length action. On Z-Hat's web page they have some pretty comprehensive balistic data that show it right on the heels of the H&H. Does anyone out there doubt the 375 Hawk's ability to kill a Cape buffalo?

RENRAF,

With good bullets you should be able to do anything the 9.3x62 does. I'm sure buffalo have been killed with smaller cartridges.

Take the road less traveled!

I've built two 375 Hawks. One for myself and one for a relative. Mine is on a Browning 81 (old steel framed blr) and the other on a 1895 winchester. Fred at z-hat did the chamber for me. Mine performs as adverised although I'd say it pushing it a bit to say it performs at 375 HH levels. Maybe performance of the HH 50 years ago.

The Scovill's parent case is a 9.3X62 and later changed to use an 06 case and renamed the Hawk. Case dimensions are close enough to call it a necked up 9.3X62.

Here is a link to a short history of the 375 hawk.
http://www.z-hat.com/Handloader166.htm

Here is a link to other hawk-related information.
http://www.z-hat.com/archive.htm

[ 02-19-2003, 06:56: Message edited by: cgdavid ]

Renraf,
You open the VZ in the rear, a new bolt stop and about 40 thousands in front which is so little as to be able to do with your fingernail Open the bolt face ...

I use a Ted Blackburn magazine box for the 375, 416 Rem, or 404 Jefferys cartridge and make everything around that box, add a little rail work and you have it. Now go test it for 100% feed and extraction...finito!!

Did I mention the 376 Steyr?
375 HH in a short action?

Okay, so it's not 30'06 based, but I had next to ZERO work to get it to feed in a 7x57 action

jeffe

Jeffe,
What case is the Styer based on? What work did you have to do? Interesting sugestion! Thanks

Ray,
Are there any good publications out there describing the magnum modifications?

Thanks,

Mark

I agree. Go with a .376 Steyr. I believe it is based on the 9.3x62. A lot has been written, but it basically will give 2350 with a 300 gr bullet out of a 19-20" barrel. This is probably near a .375 at that length. You then have a standard caliber with over the counter ammo, and a much larger market if you ever sell the rifle.

As to wildcats, I would go with a 375/284 instead of an '06 base, for the simple reason of magazine length. Performance is identical. If you don't like the 416 Taylor, try the .375. Work for either is minimal.

Don't ever believe any of the wildcat data. If someone is taking an '06 case and duplicating magnum performance, they are probably running 65-70Kpsi.

here' the link to my 376
http://www.serveroptions.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=001943

It's based of the 9,3x64, which is a different case line than the 30-06, 9,3x62, or magnums. It has a very simular case capacity to a short mag, but has a .500 head.

jeffe

Ray, would you please post info for the Blackburn box and where to get it. I have several vz's waiting for projects and now that my 458 American is tuned up I am ready to try a long action project. Thanks.
Frank

Jeffe, Man have you got me all worked up! Are you all done, or are you going to put a quarter rib and sights on it? 376 Styer has taken the lead!

REN,
I didn't do the quarter rib.. just put a 3 pos safety, and the front sight off a 416 cz on it... will do the rear sight another day.. the 500 jeffe has been kicking my butt

But, i think the 376 is the best rifle I own, and far away the best i've built

jeffe

Two '06 alternivies are...

The 375 Whelen improved. Mine is on a Santa barbara action built to what a safari rifle is like. I'm still working up loads, and will continue this summer, as winter up here is much too cold for bench testing.

The other, the 380 Howell (designed by gun writer Ken Howell). This one is actually 2.6 inces long, with a 25 degree shoulder angle, if memory serves me right. This is the one pretty much equals the H&H. Properly head stamped brass is made 'down under'. Loaded ammo available. Load dies are more then reasonable in cost, much less then my 375 WhnAI dies.
www.hunting-rifles.com

~~~Suluuq

Thanks for the info, keep it commng!

RENRAF
I think you would also like the 380 Howell. It looks like the 375 Hawk with a longer neck and the same powder capacity.

I just picked up 20 cases (35 Whelen) for $5.00 and in a few monents turned then into 20 loaded rounds of 375 Hawk. You can't beat that price for brass. Everyone seems to have Whelen brass cheap.

I don't miss my .338 Win mag at all.

RENRAF,

Zeglin built a 375 Hawk on one of the Win 1895 reproductions for me about 3 years ago, and I took it on a black bear hunt in Alaska. It has been a fun rifle to play with and balances very nicely.

I mostly use 30-06 or 35 whelen brass, but bought some Norma 9.3x62 brass which also fits just fine in my gun. The unfired Norma brass chambered just fine, and is less of a hassle to form---don't have to expand way up and neck down to create the correct headspace.

H4895, Reloader 15 are good powders, and I have used VV N540 for most of my loads with 270 Hornadys.

I don't try to hot rod this thing, I just consider it to be a 375 H&H downloaded to 2400 fps much like another thread was discussing.

Now that I have had it for a few years, I kind of wish that I had a 9.3x62 barrel just so I would have factory ammo and properly headstamped (and yes I know that Quality Cart. has 375 Hawk headstamped brass) brass that doesn't require a lot of time at the reloading press.

As far as it being called the Hawk/Scovill, I think that was just to get Dave Scovill to write about it...

Steve