Hang fire with H414

25 January 2015, 07:36

56hawk

Hang fire with H414

Finally got my 600 Overkill back out to the range today and had hang fires with every round loaded with H414. Shot a couple old rounds loaded with IMR 4350 and they all worked perfectly.

Any ideas what might be going on? Only thing different since the last time I shot it is that it was 40 degrees outside today. Is H414 temperature sensitive? Or do I just need a hotter primer? I loaded this batch with CCI No.200 primers. I don't remember, but it's possible the IMR 4350 rounds used Federal No. 210 primers.

25 January 2015, 07:55

ramrod340

Ball powder can be a hard to get burning. If I had a large load of H414 I'd stick a magnum primer behind it.

25 January 2015, 08:09

Robgunbuilder

The round was designed for Fed 215 primers. I've used a ton of H414 loads and never had a hang fire. I never even though about other weaker primers.

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012
Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise!

26 January 2015, 19:53

Pa.Frank

I use Win 760 (which is esentially H-414) in my 375 exclusively without any problems in winter or summer and have used an old 20+ year old can of H-414 in my 308 without incident.

What is the possibility of a contaminent in the cases? where the cases tumbled before loading? In maybe a new batch of media? Any possibility the primers got contaminated? Same for the powder.. Was it left sitting out in the measure for a long period of time?

Very unusual for all teh rounds to hangfire.

26 January 2015, 20:44

Leo L.

I had a similar problem, and the cause turned out to be that the primers weren't fully seated. I was seating them in the press so I changed to a hand seating tool and the problem went away.

26 January 2015, 21:11

4-5-0

I found CCI's difficult to seat in Norma 450 Rigby brass. They required so much pressure to seat that I couldn't do it with a hand tool. Of course the end result was erratic ignition. No problem with any other brand.

27 January 2015, 19:38

Robgunbuilder

This is a non-problem if you use the right primers. Period!-Rob

27 January 2015, 22:02

56hawk

quote:
Originally posted by Pa.Frank:
What is the possibility of a contaminent in the cases? where the cases tumbled before loading? In maybe a new batch of media? Any possibility the primers got contaminated? Same for the powder.. Was it left sitting out in the measure for a long period of time?

Very unusual for all teh rounds to hangfire.

The cases were washed and oven dried after being resized. Powder is less than a year old and this is only the second time I have opened the bottle.

The hang fires were very consistent. About 0.1 second delay on all rounds loaded with H414.

quote:
Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
This is a non-problem if you use the right primers. Period!-Rob

Are any magnum primers okay, or does it have to be Federal? Federal primers are almost impossible to find right now. I can get CCI 250 primers though.

27 January 2015, 22:38

dpcd

I use a lot of W760 and H414 without issue, but I always use mag primers.

27 January 2015, 23:14

ramrod340

This study has done it tour of the internet. Listing a test of the various primers. Top is hot

Brand/type                Power Average            Range            Std. Dev

1 Fed Match GM215M        6.12               5.23-6.8               .351

2 Federal 215 LRM             5.69                5.2-6.5                .4437

3 CCI 250 LRM                  5.66               4.5-7.4                 .4832

4 Winchester WLRM          5.45                5.1-6.0                .2046

5 Remington 9 1/2 LRM      5.09                3.5-6.75              .6641

6 Winchester WLR              4.8                 4.1-6.0                .4300

7 Remington 9 1/2 LR          4.75               3.7-6.25              .5679

8 Fed Match GM210M         4.64               4.0-5.6                .3296

9 Federal 210 LR                  4.62               3.7-5.5               .3997

10 CCI BR2                         4.37               4.0-5.0               .2460

11 CCI 200 LR                     4.28               3.8-4.8               .3218

12 KVB 7 LR Russian           4.27               3.8-4.8               .2213

13 Rem 91/2 (30 yrs old)       4.16                3.8-4.8              .3427

28 January 2015, 07:28

Robgunbuilder

You need to use fed 215 nothing else period. If you can't find some pm me and I'll send you some. Not using the right primers is the problem. I invented the cartridge and have fired literally thousands of rounds without ever experiencing a hang fire.-Rob

28 January 2015, 07:41

Robgunbuilder

quote:
Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
You need to use fed 215 nothing else period. If you can't find some pm me and I'll send you some. Not using the right primers is the problem. I invented the cartridge and have fired literally thousands of rounds without ever experiencing a hang fire. Historically people had lots of hangfire issues with the .600NE because they used the wrong primers. I solved this problem 15 years ago with the development of the .600ok. I use fed 215s on any cartridge burning over 100 grns of any powder as a basic principle. A hangfire could lead to a double concussion where you get a partial powder burn followed by the rest of the powder lighting off part way down the barrel behind the bullet. This could be disastrous resulting in a ringed barrel. Avoid any possibility of a hang fire. It's easy to do!-Rob
-Rob

28 January 2015, 21:56

Atkinson

I use a lot and I mean a lot of H414 in my 7x57, 9.3x62, 30-06, .308, and my 250-3000. Been using Fed 210 primers for about 40 years now and never had a misfire. My rifles shoot just a tad better the 210s so that's why I use it. I suggest your primer was not completely seated to the bottom of the case and went forward when the primer struck. It can happen.

I understand ball powders are recommended for use with Fed 215s, but they work just fine with 210s. That is not written in stone.

I have never used the cartridge mentioned and I have never use H414 in a caliber that required over 60 grs of powder. That could certainly be problematic I suppose.

29 January 2015, 02:49

jeffeosso

I've had hang fires without using fed215 -- 210s are WAY colder .. in any case larger than 150gr h20, you MUST use 215s ... anything else is a WASTE of time.

No offense, Ray - anything smaller than a 130gr case capacity has ZERO relevance in this matter

opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com

29 January 2015, 16:41

Robgunbuilder

It isn't H414 that's the issue its lighting off over 130 hrs of powder. We've known about the need to use Fed215s in real big bore cases for what 20 years now? All I can say is Fed215s work, others probably won't. People used to add a couple of gr of bullseye at the bottom of the case when Fed 215s were not available. As long as you store your cartridges upright this works, but if the cases are inverted it mixes back into the powder and may fail to ignite the load properly.

31 January 2015, 08:44

56hawk

I know I need to find some magnum primers, but a friend wanted to go shooting this evening so I loaded up a few rounds with CCI 200 primers and 170 grains of IMR 4350. They all worked perfectly, so it's definitely easier to ignite than the H414.

06 February 2015, 23:18

600 Overkill

215's do make the difference. However I was getting hangfires with 145grs +- of 748 in a 600JDJ using 215's under a 900gr JSP and good load density so yes---ball powder can be harder to light. It's a reason I stay with stick powders in the big stuff.