With the 458 Lott out there, is there a good reason to consider the .460 G&A? Don't they do about the same thing downrange?

Thanks, Okie John

Yup. One has a belt and one doesn't, if memory serves. - Dan

The 460 G&A is based on the 404 case and is easily capable of over 2500 fps with a 500 grain bullet.
The 458 Lott is based on a slightly shortened 375 H&H case. I believe the Lott can reach 2200 with a 500 grain slug.
I am a real fan of the 460 G&A. Not because it is faster than most other 45 cal. cartidges but rather that it will meet the magic 2400Fps at low pressures.
It would seem that most guys on this board don't seem to like the G&A for some reason. Recoil is probably the answere to that question.

Good luck!

Jamie

I've had a 460G&A and a friend currently has two of them. Nice rounds but I wouldn't say ours would "easily" do 2500fps with 500gr bullets. In fact, I wouldn't say they'd do 2500fps at all with hunting loads, because they don't. We're using 24" barrels and 2450fps or less is all we load for on serious hunting ammo. No need in any more velocity and the pressures start getting up there if we pass that mark.
I rebarreled mine to 450 Dakota, I tired of the hassle of a wildcat and all I lost in the bargain was one round of magazine capacity. I still load to 2400fps but now at even less pressure, and with factory brass to boot. I'd but the Lott or the Dakota and skip the G&A these days. My 458 LOTT makes 2300fps from it's 23" barrel, which is plenty of power and recoil!

[ 09-21-2003, 04:14: Message edited by: John S ]

Thanks for the info. I've read what Cooper has to say about the 460 G&A, and it sounds good. I'm wondering if the Lott/Dakota solve the same problem but just beat the G&A to market.

Okie John

The Lott was obviously designed by Jack Lott in the mid to late 60s, IIRC. The 460G&A was the brainchild of Tom Siatos, with Jack Lott's input as well. It too was dreamed up in the late 60s when Siatos and Bob Peterson were doing a lot of east African hunting.
Siatos used original magnum Mausers for the rifles whereas Lott intended his cartridge to be an easy upgrade for the M70s and Browning FNs. There really wasn't a huge demand for big bore rifles like these until safari hunting popularity soared once again in the early 80s, which is why neither were made into a factory round.
When Dakota Arms went to Art Alphin for technical assistance in helping design their line of cartridges, he passed over the 460G&A and used the Rigby case for their 450. I spoke with him about this, because I was a huge fan of the G&A, and wanted to know why they didn't adopt it. His reasoning was the G&A has such a small shoulder and the troubles it poses for proper headspacing when dealing with mass produced rifles and ammo.
He was right, and the 450 Dakota suffers from no such troubles. The G&A is a great round, and in the hands of a handloader it is all any 45cal needs to be, but with the factory ammo and brass available for the Lott and Dakota there is really no reson to use it unless one just has to have a 404 based big bore. Maybe Remington will come with the 458RUM, which would be nothing but an "improved" G&A.

I have a CZ 550 made into a 460 G&A. It's a great cartridgge. I form cases from MAST 404 cylinders and all is well; it is a very easy wildcat to form. There is plenty of shoulder for headspace - very similar to the 35 Whelen. Sadly, I have not put it over the chronograph yet. Looks like I'll be settling on a 83 or 84 grain charge of RL-15 with 500 grain Woodleighs. 85 grains shot great and an 87 grain charge showed very slight reamer marks on the fired cases. I can't see the reamer marks in the chamber so with that and the significant increase in recoil at 87 grains, I'm backing off. The cartridge/rifle combination feeds like grease. The only other modifications are a 3-position safety and a laminated stock painted black.

One neat thing is that my CZ was worked a little bit and will hold 5 rounds down in the magazine. Just some metal filed out of the box sides. With a Rigby or Weatherby mag cartridge, 5 rounds down would be more difficult.

redleg

I am going to echo George's commentary on the .460 G&A. I interviewed Art Alphin in '97 and received the same answers on the design work A-Square did for the Dakota line of cartridges. Art's point was the .404 Jeffery brass when necked up to take .458" bullets did not leave enough shoulder for positive headspace control in factory mass-produced cartridges for factory mass-produced rifles. The careful handloader will not have the combined tolerence problem that mass-produced ammo and rifles have. Art felt that the only prudent course was to leave the Jeffery brass and move up to the Rigby-sized case for the .450 Dakota.

A bit later Jeff Cooper was working with CZ who were interested in producing a "Cooper Commemorative" of his Baby (a custom .460 G&A). CZ decided not to produce that rifle because they could not be sure proper ammunition would be available.

jim dodd