I'm considering purchasing a S.I.A.C.E. Arms double rifle in .45-70 and having it rechambered in 450 NE #2. Is this a good idea or bad? The 450 #2 is a low pressure round, but may be a nightmare to regulate.

Give me your advice, help...

I don't know much about double rifles but wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to build a 450 #2 with a Ruger No 1. Have fun. Cheers. Ming

What in hell is an s.i.a.c.e double rifle?

MacD37,

I just returned from a trip to Maine and visited New England Arms Corp., in Kittery Point. They have quite an array of high grade arms and are importers for Rizzini, Bertuzzi,Francotte,Beretta and S.I.A.C.E. Arms. You may have seen their ads in Sporting Classics magazine and they have had some double rifles featured in mags and on the cover of Shooters Bible.

S.I.A.C.E. Arms have just recently started importing double rifles. Both variations are available in either hammer or hammerless. Calibers in their brochure are also varied. I recall, 9.3x74R, .45-70 and others?

See New England Arms website for info, but I don't believe that it shows the new S.I.A.C.E. double rifles. You may need to contact them for info. They encouraged me to have the .45-70 rechambered and offer a service to do it.

Their website is, www.newenglandarms.com

That would be cost prohibitive I assure you, just regulating a double is pretty darn expensive and can be really expensive if they have trouble...and yours would have to be re-regulated..

It would probably require a new set of barrels as I'm not sure the 450 case will clean up a 45-70 case, but I have not checked the specs. I would advise that checking the specs be the first thing you do...

Then don't forger the reblue, that would be another high dollar job as they must be slow rust blued.

by the time your finished you probably could have bought a nice used double for around $5500.00 or a bit less.

Have you looked at the 9.3x74 Merkels, a used one brings about $4000.

I would not convert the double but would use the ruger and have a 45-31/4" sharps reamer run in it this case will duplicate any thing that the 450 nitro will do and the good extruded cases are stronger than the original nitros were. If you get serious I have the reamers. Have fun shooting I buy the way am giving thougt to doind a ruger #1 in a 50-31/4" sharps

Hmm

To save the secondhand value I would buy a used double. Double rifles are expensive as hell to repair and have work done on.

If you whant a double get a Merkel or another good europena in 470 or 9,3X74R. Buy finished guns no restoration or rebuild projects. Used the rest of the money on something else.

Good Luck

JOHAN

for what it's worth
the pedersolli is being routinely rechambered to 450#2. But, hell, I would get a 9.3x74 and be done with is for a SxS, should that choice be the issue.
jeffe

I simply do not know about the S.I.A.C.E rifle of which you speak, but I have pleanty of experience with the Pedersoli doubls, and they have been re-chambered for 450NE 3.25", and 450#2 NE with great success! PWN just re-chambered a Pedersoli to 450#2 NE and maintained the regulation, and it shot 3" groups at 50 yds. I have a Pedersoli that was re-chambered to 458 RCBS, and it also maintained regulation, and shoots 3" groups at 100 yds, with 480 gr bullets.

Ray the 450NE 3.25" will clean the 45-70 chamber very nicely, and with the new cut in the chamber, and extractor for the thinner rim of the 450NE 3.25" extraction is great. The 450#2NE has a thicker rim, and very strong brass, and works well too!

The one thing I will caution you about is, the barrels cannot be turned with the reamer solid, as is the way a barrel is usually chambered. This means you need a smith who knows how to do this conversion properly. The barrels have to be fixed solidly between centers, with the chamber end at the drive chuck end. The chopper lumps are fixed in a micrometer vice in the cross bed, and the rest of the barrel supported by the center, on the tail stock, and a steady rest in the middle. The center is then removed form the chuck, and the reamer takes it's place in the chuck, and very carefully turned by hand, as the barrel is fed to the reamer by the vice. This is very time consuming, and therefore expencive.

PWN can give you the name of a man in Tulsa, OK who did his, and I have a man here who did my 458RCBS, that I can supply if anyone needs it. Just Email me, for the Phone Number. This guy is a long time member of the custom gun guild!

I will have to agree with Ray though, that a Merkel 470Ne can be had for About $8K, brand new, and is probably a bargain at that price, I have a new Merkel 9.3X74R that I bought new in a lugage case for $4710 delivered to my dealer here in Texas. I'm more than stttisfied with the Merkel product, and plan to buy one of their 470NEs as well!

[ 07-14-2002, 21:07: Message edited by: MacD37 ]

One "overkill style " question: How hot could be loaded .450 #2 in Ruger #1 ? I know .450 nitro express with 110gr VVN560 could push 500gr bullet at 2500fps.

Jiri

Jiri, I simply don't know how hot the 450#2 NE can be loaded in a Ruger No1. I have some No1s, in the same chamberings to match my doubles, but I work up the loads for the double rifle, then adjust the scope on the No1 to that load.

There are two reasons for this, #1 the double rifle will not stand the pressures that can be used in the No1, And #2 the cartridge is perfectly ballanced as it comes in factory ammo, and works as it is supposed to, on the game it is designed for. The 480 gr bullet is the proper weight bullet for the 450#2, and the 450NE 3.25" and the bullet will actually pennetrate better at 2150 fps than higher! Actual tests in Africa, have found that a .458 dia bullet actually looses effeciency when pushed much over the 2150 fps of factory ammo!

I'm sure one could push the .458 dia at a very high velocity in a No1 rifle, but I find no need to do so!

[ 07-15-2002, 19:39: Message edited by: MacD37 ]