Well, I sent my deposit for a 505 Gibbs from Waffenfabric Heim. I suppose sometime towards the end of 2007 I may receive it, maybe be able to take it to Zim in 2008

Cool

There is a Heim from Europe, and there is a Hein from the US, Washington state. Which is it?

The guys at Hein make beautiful guns. Are you getting a wood stock or synthetic?

Aaron

The European maker is "Heym" and the American one is "Waffenfabrik Hein".

Now that we have butchered the name in three different posts: Waffenfabrik Hein. Sorry Greg.

Aaron

Well, hell; at least I got the caliber correct! The Waffenfabrik Hein will have a wood stock

Bryan,

It will be a very, very good rifle for you. No doubt!

What made you choose that instead of a Granite Mountain,or Satterlee? Just curious.

Not speaking for Bryan, but for me the fact that I could have a very good quality rifle for a bit more than the actions you mentioned was a selling point. Not that I was necessarily price shopping. I found working with WFF Hein to be a real pleasure. My rifle if off for rust bluing right now (I hope).

quote:

Originally posted by micdis:
Not speaking for Bryan, but for me the fact that I could have a very good quality rifle for a bit more than the actions you mentioned was a selling point. Not that I was necessarily price shopping. I found working with WFF Hein to be a real pleasure. My rifle if off for rust bluing right now (I hope).

I hope you put more effort informing yourself about rifles than you did in comparing prices.

shootaway,

if you look up the word "Cretin" in the dictionary they have your picture. A Waffenfabrik Hein with good wood is under $4K; about like the other two companies actions.

regards,

Rich NRA Life Member
DRSS

QUOTE] I hope you put more effort informing yourself about rifles than you did in comparing prices.[/QUOTE]
The Hein with plastic stock starts at $2700, with wood around $4500. GMA action $3000, Satterlee action $3000. Whats your point?

IS, I put Numnuts on ignore a while back and surfing the threads is far more enjoyable.

I haven't verified it as fact yet, but I have a suspicion that shootaway is the most ignored member of AR.

Canuck

While shootaway is getting bashed in this thread, he is correct about prices. Hein is substantially less than Satterlee or GMA.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
While shootaway is getting bashed in this thread, he is correct about prices. Hein is substantially less than Satterlee or GMA.

If that is what shootaway said, I confess, I missed it entirely.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
While shootaway is getting bashed in this thread, he is correct about prices. Hein is substantially less than Satterlee or GMA.

I read his comment as diagreeing with that position. But he is so generally FOS that ignoring him until his grade school starts back up is probably good advice.

quote:

I read his comment as diagreeing with that position.

FWIW, so did I. It sounded to me like he was disagreeing with (or insulting, actually) micdis, who I think pretty clearly said that you can get an entire WH rifle for the same price as a GMA or Satterlee action.

Canuck

Bryan, One word of advise for your 505 would be to start picking up components when you can. Both woodleigh weldcores and barnes TSX seem to be made somewhat infrequently and are often ouy of stock. Midway finally got some TSX in yesterday or today after being out of stock for months and they are down to a few boxes left right now.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
While shootaway is getting bashed in this thread, he is correct about prices. Hein is substantially less than Satterlee or GMA.

Without knowing exactly what he ordered, it's hard to say that Hein is "substantially" less than the other two. the N-series base model (round bridges) is $1950 and the one with custom square bridges is $2700. Going by their reputation alone, I would bet a dozen donuts that the quality of Hein, Satterlee and GMA would be the same.

quote:

Originally posted by micdis:
QUOTE] I hope you put more effort informing yourself about rifles than you did in comparing prices.

The Hein with plastic stock starts at $2700, with wood around $4500. GMA action $3000, Satterlee action $3000. Whats your point?[/QUOTE]

$4,500 does NOT include the price of the blank and is based on round bridge action. For a rifle like that one should pick atleast a $1,000 to $1,500 blank to do justice to it.

If you pick the barreled action with custom square bridges with quarter rib, banded front sights, skeleton grip cap and special checkering pattern, you can easily exceed $7,000 with a nice blank. From the pictures on their website the end product will be worth every dime.

The real deals on the Hein are their finished rifles. When I ordered mine it was $2700 for a complete rifle (synthetic stock)with machined double square bridge with talley rings. Prices have risen somewhat since then. But, IMO still a deal. I figure I paid about half what a rifle using a GMA action and similarly equiped would have cost. In the end I bought the one I wanted, and so should everyone else.

It says on the WF site that the price of a wood stocked rifle is 4500 NOT including the cost of the blank.So if a 3000 dollar blank is chosen then that will bring the price to 7500.If I am not mistaken that is roughly the price given on the Satterlee site.BTW,if anyone wants to know what a finished drop dead beauty of a stock costs,here goes,around 7000 US dollars.

The LAST thing I'd want on a 505 Gibbs is a $3000 blank.

Good straight hard wood will only be a fraction of that amount.

- stu

Well, to answer the question posed to me about my reasons for choosing the Hein, they follow: Price was a consideration, although the Hein was so much below the costs of the others that I was very hesitant about choosing them. After reading what people posted about them on AR, and realizing that really, people did buy them and thought well of the product convinced me to post off the money. We don't worry about were our next meal is coming from
but, I am a cheap bastard, and try to get the best value possible.

I have a W.F. Hein rifle.

It is on a left handed "N" action, with double square bridges, machined to take Talley rings.

Additionally, the rear bridge has been machined to take a 'ghost peep' sight. I believe the photograph used earlier in the year on their web page is actually 'my' rifle.

My rifle has a stainless steel, ?super? match quality Pac-nor barrel. So, no skimping there.

I am very happy with the build quality. It has a reassuring "thunk" sound when the bolt is worked. Just like an old slam door railway train carriage or London taxi.

The bolt action is very smooth to work, especially when the rifle is 'in the shoulder'. Sometimes, this is not always the case and you must lower your rifle slightly, taking it out of the shoulder and look at your action. Not a desireable feature in a rifle which may be used on game animals which 'bite' back.

I found corresponding with Karl Webber and Greg Hein a pleasure. They were helpful and worked with me, bringing to realisation my, sometimes only part thought through "I would like something like....." etc ideas.

As an example, I wanted a fairly new (available to the public perhaps) weather / corrosion resistant finish - "Nickel - Boron" on the rifle's metal parts. They sorted this out, finding a defense contractor willing to do the work etc.

robthorn,you could get any match barrel from anywhere for 500 dollars.The bolt is smooth to work compared to what? Also,a good oiling know and then,and keeping your rifles stored where they are not exposed to humidity will make them rust free for life.You could have saved there and got a nicer stock.Although I never worked an action from Granite Mountain,I sense by looking at a photo of one that it will be the smoothest of all.I could be mistaken,but it looks like they got a hardened bolt. moving on a rail.

quote:

Originally posted by Stu C:
The LAST thing I'd want on a 505 Gibbs is a $3000 blank.

Good straight hard wood will only be a fraction of that amount.

- stu

have you had stocks break before? If so you might be right!

My Hein is smooth compared to:

Sauer 200/ 202 rifles

Sako 75 rifles

And a number of 'name' British gunmaker's products.

But I agree with you about regular 'oiling'.

My comment about the Pac-nor barrel was just to show they are built with quality components. That is all. Many custom rifle makers use top end American barrels with good results. Lothar Walther is another good brand, which I believe Dakota use.

Both Sako and Tikka rifles have a good reputation for accuracy here in the UK. Better than Remington, Ruger and Winchester. But Sako is circa twice the price of a Remington.

I have read and heard good comments about Empire Rifles, Borden and Neiska rifles. There are many good manufacturers and custom rifle makers out there. Particularly in the US.

However, I happen to own Fred Zeglin and W.F. Hein semi custom rifles and am happy with both of them. The Zeglin rifle is a more traditionally styled rifle, but I would not take it 'bog snorkelling', as is sometimes required when hind culling. Hence the comments on the all weather finish specification of the Hein and wanting a McMillan fibre glass stock. I rather like the marbled ones bye the way.

Here in the UK, you are never more than about 55 miles from the sea. The sea = salty air === corrosion. Just look at the state of older cars body work here in the UK. You will have to take my word on that.

Those coming from an intra continental climate might not be aware of how damp the climate is in the UK. Especially the West side. Or similar maritime climates.

In continental climates, which are much colder than the UK, the climate is drier. The cold 'squeezes' the moisture from the air.

Our stalking / hunting involves crawling over and through wet boggy ground, heather and bracken, 'seasoned' with sheep and deer 'pooh'. None of these, plus the accompaniment of rain / drizzle /mist is charitable to blued metal.

Additionally, our houses are cold, damp and draughty. Thermal efficiency and insulation are not good in most UK homes, particularly older ones like mine.

I shoot all Heym rifles, and IMO they are beautiful rifles and great to shoot out of the box.
Got a 30-06 SR 30,a 458 Safari and 22-250 sr30.
When I asked heym to get me 22-250 sr30 they said they didnt build one and had no plans to, so I got a 308 sr 30 action and sent it to Callum Ferguson (precision rifles) in Scotland and he barreled it with a Schillin barrel, he asked me what I wanted to do with the rifle, and my answer was " shoot foxes", and I wanted to shoot a light bullet fast and flat, so he built it to shoot 40 grain hp`s.
Boy does it do what i asked.

P.S. am looking to get another Heym, up in the 500 cal,just in case I need it

John,

The Heym is a lovely rifle. Waffenfabrik Hein is a custom maker here in the states and is also a very nice rifle from what I hear.

quote:

Originally posted by Bryan Chick:
Well, to answer the question posed to me about my reasons for choosing the Hein, they follow: Price was a consideration, although the Hein was so much below the costs of the others that I was very hesitant about choosing them. After reading what people posted about them on AR, and realizing that really, people did buy them and thought well of the product convinced me to post off the money. We don't worry about were our next meal is coming from
but, I am a cheap bastard, and try to get the best value possible.

Bryan,

I own a Hein rifle and second everything that Robthom has said. I can just about promise that you will not be disappointed, they are absolutely fantastic rifles. What he said about the reassuring thunk sound when the action is worked is the first thing I noticed about mine when I first picked it up. The action has almost a musical quality when worked.


Shootaway, how many Hein rifles do you own or have you ever even seen one in the flesh?

robthom,if there is so much salty moisture in the air over there then you would need a special steel coating,maybe teflon.I was surprised to ever here of an action being smoother than a Sako 75.adrook,I don't want to own many rifles,one is enough. Also, I have never owned a Hein,that is why I ask.adrook,a good word from you on any rifle is not really a good word.

The reason I opted for a chemical 'treatment' -"alteration" of the metal surface, rather than a coating, is durability.

The track record of teflon coated rifles here in the UK has not been good. Admittedly, this was mainly to do with the earlier generation (mid 1980s) coming out of the US. The technology simply did not exist in the UK gun trade.

Evem today, it would be a major exercise getting a rifle stripped down and retreated - coated. Parkerizing, to military specs, poses a major hurdle.

Companies which are part of the car or aircraft industry, or general light engineering like steel fabricators / galanizers etc generally do not have state / legal permission to do the work (UK gun laws) or they are defense contractors and are not interested in single unit work.

I found this the case when trying to get the company which parkerizes the Accuracy International "Arctic Warfare" British Army sniper rifles.

Hence the Nickel - Boron treatment, which is tougher than black chrome. If it is good enough for USN jet fighter landing gear etc, it should be good for Scottish Highlands.

The Sako brand of rifles here in the UK has long been the "Gold Standard" amongst professional stalkers: Forrester, Finnbear, the 75. I think, based upon the ones I have handled, and some used, my Hein is smoother. Then again, it cost circa three times as much.

Another important factor is I am left handed.......This limits me somewhat in my choice. At the same time I was considering the Hein, I also looked at a Dakota 76. But on balance, given the other features I wanted, I decided upon the Hein. I thought then and am still happy with my choice.

I have owned two other left handed rifles prior to my present ones. A left hand Model M Steyr Mannlicher .270 and a Heym SR20 N. Also a .270. The Heym was rather heavy, for calibre, with a Schmidt & Bender 6x42 scope. But it was accurate.

The Heym had a very nice piece of walnut for a stock. Unfortunately, stalking through mud, rain etc, it did not stay that way. It irked me somewhat - the 'damage' to the stock / finish. Since then, I have made it a policy not to have rifle stocks with nice wood.

Bear in mind, here in the UK there are restrictions on owning and buying rifles. I have noticed people tend to have 2 or 3 rifles: .22lr, a .22 centre fire and a deer calibre of some sort.

One result of this fewer rifles effect is the rifles owned by the 'average shooter' tend to be more expensive, particularly if you factor in the quality scopes like Swarvoski, Zeiss, Schmidt & Bender.