Anyone with access to QuickLoad that can tell me what it shows for the following load:

Caliber: .500/.416 NE
Bullet: 400 grain Woodleigh
Power: 97 grains of H4831SC
Primer: Federal 215

Thanks much.

Assuming a 24 inch barrel and a 410 grain Woodleigh (no data for a 400 grain) I get 2184 fps at 35600 PSI. (Rated max is 45000 PSI, so you are good on pressure.

The powder is only 91% burnt, so I suspect this load would bark and flash blind you at dawn and dusk.

88.1 grains of AA-XMR4350 gets you 2206 fps at the same pressure and is 100 % burnt.

104.5 grains of Reloder-25 gets you 2256 fps at the same pressure, but is only 96% burnt.

By the way, my version of QL does not model specific primers. I assumed a COL of 4 inches in a 3.240 case.

Don,

Thank you very much for the information. I am clawing and scratching to find decent load data for the .500/.416 so this is very, very helpful. First, I want to make sure that I do not blow anything up (first and foremost, me). Second, if I can avoid just resorting to trial and error for load development that would be a real timesaver. Thanks again.

Mike

Mike,

Verify your cartridge case (3-1/4?), your barrel length, and your desired Cartridge Overall Length, type of action, desired working pressure and a list of powders you have in stock and I will run it all to see what QL suggests. Your 35,600 PSI seems safe and sane enough to me, but I don't know double rifles at all.

Since I am a deer hunter I am in the habit of avoiding the flash in my loads. I don't know how often it would be a factor in Africa, but with a DGR having it be a factor once in a lifetime might be too much!

If you have a known good load we can estimate the "barrel time" and see what other loads match that. I suspect that barrel time is important in a double.

Remember that QL is not foolproof, but it has worked out well for me.

Don,

That would be great. Thanks.

Cartridge Length: 3.25 inches
Barrel Length: 24 inches
OAL: 3.90 inches
Action: Double
Powders: H1000, IMR4350, H4831SC and RL15

Pressure is a mystery to me. The "factory" ballistics from Krieghoff list the cartridge at 2330 fps. They list the pressure (Pmax) as 39,885 psi Copper crusher method and 44,962 psi Piezzo method.

Is that what you need?

Mike

Mike,

Your pressures match QL's limits.

The load you listed first gets 37,600 PSI at 3.900 COL vs 35,600 at 4.0 COL which shows you how easy it is to get pressure increases in these cartridges. I think that 85% of Pmax (QL reports psi) or 38,200 is a good design pressure. (Hot days in Africa might increase pressure.)

That is 99.4 gr of H4831SC yielding 2243 fps.
Or 105.2 gr H1000 at 2255 fps.
Or 95.6 gr IMR4350 at 2230 fps.
Or 77.0 gr RL-15 at 2186 fps.

Or, if you buy powder:

107 gr RL-25 at 2311 fps.

The increased pressure helps the percent burnt: all are now 95% or better.


If you insist on getting to 2330 fps with this 410 grain bullet, then RL-25 is your best bet. It gets there at 39,000 PSI with a load of 107.7 gr, leaving you a 13% pressure margin.

One thing that I believe to be true is that for a given powder QL does a very good job of predicting the peak pressure reached for a given velocity.

For instance: let's say you work up safely to a load of 107 gr of RL-25 and your chrono says you are at 2250 fps. (This is typical of QL results - they do not tend to understimate pressure.) I believe it is safe to increase the powder load incrementally until you reach 2330 fps with that powder. You will then be at or near 39,000 PSI.

Conversely, if you reach 2330 fps at 105 gr, then stop there - you have reached 39000 PSI.

As always, if somebody speaks up with real-world data (and you trust it) then measured data trumps QL data every time. The problem is that modern brass is so good that it sometimes won't show pressure signs until it gets to 80,000 PSI! So take big posted numbers with a grain of salt.

In particular be wary of anecdotes about huge loads of RL-15. It is faster-burning and therefore has a lower muzzle pressure for a given attained velocity. This gives lighter bark and is more pleasant to shoot - and "seems" therefore to have a lower pressure. But the internal peak pressure is higher at that velocity than with the slower-burning RL-25.

In your shoes I would buy some RL-25 and develop the load carefully with a chronograph while watching regulation (grouping). When the barrels converge at your desired range, stop! If they don't converge with RL-25 by 2330 fps, then try a different burn rate powder. With any other powder, though, you will be at higher pressure by the time you reach 2330 fps.

There are many experienced double rifle shooters here, and I'm sure they will speak up. You might start a thread with "double rifle help needed" in the title. Most double shooters are not QL types!

Good luck!

Don,

You have truly gone above and beyond on helping me work through this, I appreciate it. I think I now have sufficient information to proceed without fear of a bad result. Of course, I will keep you posted on how things turn out. Also sounds like QL is something I might need to add to my collection at some point.

Appreciate all the information and help.

Mike

Mike,

Once you get a load that regulates, send me the velocity, powder, etc. and I will use QL to estimate the barrel time. Theory says that barrel time is the ruling characteristic for regulation (velocity is just easier to measure.)

It would then be interesting to see how closely we could predict the regulation velocity for a completely different bullet like a North Fork solid.

Will do. I have some loads prepared with IMR4350, H4831SC and intend to pick up some RL25 today. Hopefully if the weather permits I can get to the range tomorrow and then give you a report.

Mike

Don,

I promise not to play twenty questions with you, but just curious, what does QL show for 96 and 97 grains of IMR4350? The load you got last night was 95.6 grains with pressure of 38,200 psi. I shot 95 grains last weekend and had loaded 96 and 97 grains to shoot this weekend. Please do not trouble yourself to run the numbers if it is too much of a bother.

Mike

Mike,

THAT IS A TYPO! IT should read 85.6 gr IMR4350.

95 grains is 50,000 PSI. Please do not shoot the 96 and 97 grain loads of IMR4350!

Man, this is enough to make me quit doing this for anybody else!

Don

Glad I asked. Sounds like the RL25 is the way to go.

Not your issue regarding the 96 and 97 grain loads, since I was using 95 last weekend. Ugh.

Mike, send me your email in a PM and I will send you the raw outputs from QL.

I am too poor a typist to be transcribing this stuff!

What velocity did you get with 95 gr of IMR4350?

Don

Sent you a PM.

Mike

Where can I get a copy of QuickLoad?

Used to be that NECO was the only authorized distributor in the USA.

http://www.neconos.com/