The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Help..I've fallen and...404!!Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Ok guys...I WANT a .404, talked to Dennis Olson, and his take is that the classic M70 with new magazine box for the .300Ultra is the way to go...BUT how can I live with myself, a classic DG rifle and not a Mauser???? I know that money-wise the M70 is certainly the way to go here...and I also know there are a number of the .404 African Sheep rifles in use, so why can't I see the M70 and .404??? Help...give me some room to be convinced...and I don't drink, so that is not a solution...Arthur | ||
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Personally I think a .404 on a M70 is a waste of money because you could just buy a new M70 in .416 for $850 and have the .404's ballistic twin. If you are going to the .404 for nostalgia, then spend the money and get a properly done Mauser. Otherwise, just get the factory .416 M70 and use the other money on hunting. IMO  | |||
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The M70 will sure do the job but a 98 Mauser is the really classy traditional approach. NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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Why not order a CZ Safari Classic in 404 and be done with it? http://safariclassics.com/home.html
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I have to agree with 500 gr on this one........................if you are going to the trouble of having a .404 over any of the .416 varients then it needs to be in it's traditional dress......................an m98. | |||
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The notion that the .404 Jeffery is limited only to a Mauser is the hobgoblin of little minds. My African Sheep Rifle is an Ultimate Rifle of sorts, for me, on an M70. I have it and the CZ Safari Classic. Both are 10" twist McGowen barrels, BTW. That said, I am not averse to Mausers in .404 Jeffery, and would love to find or build a Mauser with a Lothar Walther barrel of 14" twist. This is because my son was born in Missouri and he will undoubtedly say "show me" someday, about .404 Jeffery barrels and velocities with the various 4831 powders, to complete his first hand education. The fact that Dennis Olson recommends the M70 with RUM box does indeed shout GREEN LIGHT. If you can get him to build one for you like that, 'nuff said. Make it stainless and synthetic, blacken the metal and paint the stock brown, and the critters will never know the difference. However, don't let the extended-pinky-finger-type individual get too close, or he will feel offended by your weapon's superiority and probably launch into a tirade about how you shouldn't do a .404 Jeffery on anything but a Mauser! Some individuals have inferiority complexes manifested by such tirades.  | |||
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Dennis Olson knows what he is talking about. lawndart  | |||
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RIP go easy on me my ego is fragile  | |||
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RIP 500 & PC a new one RIP. Sometimes being a Mauser purist is, well, anal  ? Now I wouldn't go all the way to fiberglass stock, but nothing wrong w/ a M70 for a .404jeff.  LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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Fred, Now that I have the NECG Masterpiece banded front sight with H&H Moon Bead, all I have to do is get a Gunkote black finish on the stainless and a little brown paint on the Brown Precision, and I might be passable as long as I don't dally too long to let the anal crowd get too close a look ...  My method of reinforcing the front of the RUM M70 Classic box was just to have it bedded tight up against epoxy fill ... no bullet nose battering can dent that. A toast to the M70 .404 Jeffery. Cheers:  | |||
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Well here is my two cents for what its worth. I did mine on a mdl 70, cause it was the most easy to get to feed in my opinon. Dennis Olson did the feeding and it feeds slickern a gut with 350 grain woodleighs. I hope to load some 400 gr barnes to see how they feed, but I bet they will feed just fine. I originaly wanted one on a mauser, but the box dim and etc was more than I wanted to deal with, so I went the mdl 70. Glad I went that route, I'm very pleased with it. If I had it to do over again I would do it on a mdl 70. As far as a 404 having to be on a mauser, might win the cool factor award and the first 404 were on mausers........but I aint for sure the first mausers were 404's, so best I can tell in this day and time the win ultra mag may be the easy way to get it done. Billy, High in the shoulder (we band of bubbas) | |||
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I have a 404 Jeffery on a Win 70 that I am planning to sell. Drop me a PM if you are interested. Garrett | |||
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Art, God bless you, you simply have class, something many on this thread do not have such as the evil RIP, who shoots the ugliest damn guns in the world, has no class and nostalgia is a meaningless word, and he thinks we of the culture are small minded,and that may be a fact, but at least we have a mind and know better than to own ugly guns for sheep!! I agree with you 100%, a 404 should be a Mauser and Dennis is just trying to save himself some headaches....remember Mauser made a heck of a lot of 404s, and FN made a few that are highly sought after these days... It is nice if you can get a magazine box from Wisner, as it has .065 side walls and can be modified...Harold Wolf does this all the time, but he is a studied mauser man, but in his artical on the 404 he explains the process of magazine box modifications..The releif cut inside the box is the secret of the 404 as contact is only made on the shoulder and rim with that big case, copy the Mauser box. This is where a "real" gunsmith comes into play....Yes a m-70 is easier to build a 404 on as the box in quesition is available from the RUM series, but it has no class, history or nostalgia, and without those elements one loses the smell and ombiance of Africa, and is reduced to plastic, stainless steel and all such modern ugly things... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ray, where can I read this article? I like hearing how these guys make things work. Thanks. Red | |||
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Luv those ugly guns. | |||
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Now boys, let's play nice...I appreciate the information so far and this is where I am at: M70 means cheaper, easier to mount scope on, plenty of parts (even plastic...), but somehow....the CZ is a good option but needs a M70-style safety and scope mounts...the M98 needs a box...where o where to get the box that works???? As in, what is the link to Harald Wolfe...etc., and I don't think Wisner has any boxes and Blackburn is backed up and I am not certain his box will work either....Oh dear...just get on with a .416 or get stubborn...and then I will need to take metalsmithing classes and run a mill and then I'll be too busy making them for others to use one myself...inquiring minds want to know answers to questions that maybe should not be asked....Arthur | |||
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CRAP! Now I am really confused.  I thought I was supposed to spend the extra $$ to get top of the line stuff, like a fine custom rifle, Leica optics, Selous boots, Tuffpak rifle case, etc, etc. After all, if I can afford to hunt in Africa I certainly can't afford NOT to go all the way with my gear. Just couldn't help myself...  Canuck | |||
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Artie, Lighten up and live a little. I know where you can get a .416 RM Winchester M70 Classic Big Five Safari Express with a gold cape buffalo on the floorplate for $1895. This will be much cheaper and easier than the "proper" .404 Jeffery Mauser 98. I had a Mauser bottom metal unit for .404 Jeffery on order for about a year, but the builder had to cancel out due to business changes ... No worries, the stainless and synthetic M70 African Sheep Rifle will still be functioning smoothly when the Mausers are just rust and termite dust.  A Montana Rifleman M99 would be another great alternative. Please do not drill and tap holes right over the chamber to mount a rear sight right up against the receiver ring. That is more than just ugly, that is stupid. I am sure you are competent to not make that mistake, but you would be surprised ... some wankers around here can take a perfectly good ugly gun and screw it up beyond redemption, short of a major overhaul, like a new barrel.  | |||
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Here is the fundamental question: Since the customer can purchase a factory .416 RM M70 for $850, why should he spend about $1000 more to get a M70 in .404 which is ballistically identical to the .416 RM? Personally I would prefer the .404 cartridge over the .416 RM, but I do not see much payback for the additional money invested. | |||
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Really 500, there is NEVER much payback for any custom gun. We do what we do because we want to, not because there is payback. If factory rifles & cartridges are your fancy, more power to you, it's just not my road. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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Im sorry guys but all this nostalgia is going to make me throw up ...let me give you the answer. BLASER 93 !!!!!!  DB Bill aka Bill George | |||
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Come on DB Bill, us California guys already have it hard enough. People already assume we are weird, but a BLASER 93, now thats just plain crazy.  For the record, I building my 404 Jeffery on a 1909 Argentine Mauser Tim | |||
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Shumba, Glad to know there are folks with class in Kalefornia even if the number is 1... Rip, me lad, there are Mauser 404 floating around and still working that were a hundred years before your gun was forged and whittled!!  and will be around when that old clunker of yours has been regulated to the trash bin in about a year I suspect!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Hogwash, Ray. My relatives will be settling new planets, packing the African Sheep Rifle (for alien varmints not requiring a death ray) long after the original Mausers are relegated to museums and wall hanging. And no hand wringing over cracking a stock or setting back a bolt despite 60,000 psi sheep loads. No worries in any weather. | |||
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RIP, I will buy that, you are definately from a different planet! and your gun was a museum piece from the get go!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Long live the .404 Jeffery, the first (in the year 1905 AD) and the last (in the year 2525 AD) Dangerous Game Bolt Action Cartridge. | |||
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