My limited experience with buffalo has been with 400 grain Trophy Bonded Bearclaws. No complaints. However, due to the current ammunition shortage, I thought I'd ask about other possibilities, such as Nosler Partitions and Hornady DGX bullets on buffalo and large plains game, such as eland.

Also, have a supply of Nosler custom ammunition with 400 grain solids. Any experience with Nosler solids on elephant?

Thanks in advance.

I have not yet hunted DG with my new 416 Rigby. But I have been doing a lot of research as components are very hard to come by in NZ & very expensive.

Here is what I have

* 410 gr Woodleigh custom ammo (I thought originally it was Hornady RN but now I have a pleasent surprise)
* 350 gr TSX bullets
* 400 gr Hronady RN softs - interlocked bullets (for practice - I got 4 pkts!)

I am going to get
* 400 Gr CEB #13 solids
* 370 gr CEB non-con
* 300 gr Raptor with poly tips & reversible as a solid

I have read enough about Hornady DGX softs not penetrating well. I have also read that the conventional FMJs from Woodleigh, etc. can bend when hitting big bopnes and do not penetrate as well as mono metal solids.

If I could get them, I would be happy to try Swift A-frame, Nosler Partition, North Fork softs or cup point solids, or other premium bullets like Rhino etc.

One buffalo hunt is in my dreams and I will take only the very best bullets for that hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
I have not yet hunted DG with my new 416 Rigby. But I have been doing a lot of research as components are very hard to come by in NZ & very expensive.

Here is what I have

* 410 gr Woodleigh custom ammo (I thought originally it was Hornady RN but now I have a pleasent surprise)
* 350 gr TSX bullets
* 400 gr Hronady RN softs - interlocked bullets (for practice - I got 4 pkts!)

I am going to get
* 400 Gr CEB #13 solids
* 370 gr CEB non-con
* 300 gr Raptor with poly tips & reversible as a solid

I have read enough about Hornady DGX softs not penetrating well. I have also read that the conventional FMJs from Woodleigh, etc. can bend when hitting big bopnes and do not penetrate as well as mono metal solids.

If I could get them, I would be happy to try Swift A-frame, Nosler Partition, North Fork softs or cup point solids, or other premium bullets like Rhino etc.

One buffalo hunt is in my dreams and I will take only the very best bullets for that hunt.

By "TSX" I assume that you include TTSX?
If not, they should be added to your list.

In any case, as shown on another thread, the 350 grain TSX in .416" can serve as a standard for setting the bar as a buffalo and all-around plains bullet. Test the CEB's when you get them. Then the most accurate of all the 300-370 grain bullets should probably be your safari bullet.

Tanzan

Yes the TTSX will be part of the list. I just do not have them.

since this is the .416" bullet thread, someone could help us out with a little Quickload work.

How much space is given up by switching from the 350 grain TSX to the 350 TTSX?

If a direct calculation of the difference between the 1.603" TTSX bullet and the 1.42" TSX bullet is not available, then comparative loading densities might work. For example, what is the loading density of the 350 TSX with 102.5 grains of R-17? Then what is the loading density of 101.5 grains R-17 with the 350 gr TTSX? If, for example, the density is 99% for for the TSX, but 100% for the TSX, then try the calculations again with 101 grains and 100.5 grains. When the loading density is the same the approximate loss of capacity by the longer bullet will be seen.

I am guessing that a loading of the same powder density of R-17 between the TSX and the TTSX will produce close to equal pressures, though theoretically slightly less velocity for the TTSX. I would be happy to give up 25 fps for keeping things safe. Of course, the exact metal composition and hardness of the TTSX and TSX may affect velocity. And the exact diameters of the two bullets, to .00005", will also affect velocity in the same barrel. The main thing is to get the pressure levels approximately the same.

quote:

If I could get them, I would be happy to try

Give Martin Bester a call. He has a lot coming into NZ shortly and I am sure he would be happy to oblige.

Mobile: +64 2 75484677
Work: +64 9 2988256

I would also look at the Woodleigh hydrostatic mono's. They print to the same POI as the Woodleight 410grain Weldcores in my CZ.

quote:

Originally posted by Rule 303:
I would also look at the Woodleigh hydrostatic mono's. They print to the same POI as the Woodleight 410grain Weldcores in my CZ.

Hydrostatic Woodies are $5+/bullet at Midway. Kinda steep.
CEB will offer Flatnose, as well as GS and Northfork.
And Barnes apparently still offers the 416 CAL .416" 350 GR BND SLD FB FLAT NOSE through their website, despite the BATFE "hold" on most calibres. About $1.20/bullet.

It's a scandal that BATFE have discriminated against Barnes for 20 months now and I would recommend supporting them in their time of trouble.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

It's a scandal that BATFE have discriminated against Barnes for 20 months now and I would recommend supporting them in their time of trouble.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Originally posted by Rule 303:
I would also look at the Woodleigh hydrostatic mono's. They print to the same POI as the Woodleight 410grain Weldcores in my CZ.

Hydrostatic Woodies are $5+/bullet at Midway. Kinda steep.
CEB will offer Flatnose, as well as GS and Northfork.
And Barnes apparently still offers the 416 CAL .416" 350 GR BND SLD FB FLAT NOSE through their website, despite the BATFE "hold" on most calibres. About $1.20/bullet.

It's a scandal that BATFE have discriminated against Barnes for 20 months now and I would recommend supporting them in their time of trouble.

That is kinda steep. However if you want to end for end a Buff or you are hunting in areas of thick vegitation the Hydro will go through brush and small tree trunk and still track true.

quote:

Originally posted by Rule 303:

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Originally posted by Rule 303:
I would also look at the Woodleigh hydrostatic mono's. They print to the same POI as the Woodleight 410grain Weldcores in my CZ.

Hydrostatic Woodies are $5+/bullet at Midway. Kinda steep.
CEB will offer Flatnose, as well as GS and Northfork.
And Barnes apparently still offers the 416 CAL .416" 350 GR BND SLD FB FLAT NOSE through their website, despite the BATFE "hold" on most calibres. About $1.20/bullet.

It's a scandal that BATFE have discriminated against Barnes for 20 months now and I would recommend supporting them in their time of trouble.

That is kinda steep. However if you want to end for end a Buff or you are hunting in areas of thick vegitation the Hydro will go through brush and small tree trunk and still track true.

The other bullets with a 2/3 meplat flat nose all track true and straight.

for me, the only justification for paying 4 times what I expect to pay for a flatnose solid is if it produces a significantly better wound channel. Does the 'hydro' have a wider channel?

And if so, what is it's penetration like? The two (channel width, penetration) would seem to be in some kind of relationship.
And what is it BC like? Can I shoot it over 125 yards with a similar sightin as my TTSX?

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Originally posted by Rule 303:

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Originally posted by Rule 303:
I would also look at the Woodleigh hydrostatic mono's. They print to the same POI as the Woodleight 410grain Weldcores in my CZ.

Hydrostatic Woodies are $5+/bullet at Midway. Kinda steep.
CEB will offer Flatnose, as well as GS and Northfork.
And Barnes apparently still offers the 416 CAL .416" 350 GR BND SLD FB FLAT NOSE through their website, despite the BATFE "hold" on most calibres. About $1.20/bullet.

It's a scandal that BATFE have discriminated against Barnes for 20 months now and I would recommend supporting them in their time of trouble.

That is kinda steep. However if you want to end for end a Buff or you are hunting in areas of thick vegitation the Hydro will go through brush and small tree trunk and still track true.

The other bullets with a 2/3 meplat flat nose all track true and straight.

for me, the only justification for paying 4 times what I expect to pay for a flatnose solid is if it produces a significantly better wound channel. Does the 'hydro' have a wider channel?

And if so, what is it's penetration like? The two (channel width, penetration) would seem to be in some kind of relationship.
And what is it BC like? Can I shoot it over 125 yards with a similar sightin as my TTSX?

I have not used the Hydros on big tough game but a couple of blokes I know have. They will go from one end of a Buffalo to the other and it traveling fast enought will be a through and through shot. The draw back with Hydros- apart from price - is over penetration, just have to watch what is on the other side of the Elephant.

Photos of their wound channels are impressive not as good as a soft point but better than a standard solid.

As for sighting the only way to tell is to try them. The Hydros shot to the same POI as the 410 Woodleigh Weldcores in my 416 Rigby at 100mts.

if you are happy ith the performance of your current ammo I would stick with that. Me I just have to experiment. Will have to try some of the Cutting Edge Bullets next.

Goog;e Woodleigh and have a look at the pages about the Hydro. Not saying buy them but to help satisfy your curiosity.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
I have not yet hunted DG with my new 416 Rigby. But I have been doing a lot of research as components are very hard to come by in NZ & very expensive.

Here is what I have

* 410 gr Woodleigh custom ammo (I thought originally it was Hornady RN but now I have a pleasent surprise)
* 350 gr TSX bullets
* 400 gr Hronady RN softs - interlocked bullets (for practice - I got 4 pkts!)

I am going to get
* 400 Gr CEB #13 solids
* 370 gr CEB non-con
* 300 gr Raptor with poly tips & reversible as a solid

I have read enough about Hornady DGX softs not penetrating well. I have also read that the conventional FMJs from Woodleigh, etc. can bend when hitting big bopnes and do not penetrate as well as mono metal solids.

If I could get them, I would be happy to try Swift A-frame, Nosler Partition, North Fork softs or cup point solids, or other premium bullets like Rhino etc.

One buffalo hunt is in my dreams and I will take only the very best bullets for that hunt.

Monos can also fail.Most high volume bullet manufacturers have had their bullets bend or bulge on occasion. Speer tungsten cored, barnes solid, A-square mono to name a few.

It boils down to reliability. Monos fail less frequently than leadcore bullets. Some monos fail less frequently than other monos. Some monos not only fail less frequently than other monos, they also work better. At every step, reliability increases and that is what bullet design is about: Increase the probability of job number one by helping the shooter to place the shot. Then comes job number two: Increase the success rate of the shooter with a more reliable product.

Has anyone used 340 gr Woodleigh softs? I am really keen to know how they perform on heavy game and also at long range on deer / PG. Aussie members might be experienced ...??

I have just paid for 2 packets I found here in NZ at a reasonable price. Midway retail price plus NZ$20 shipping!

Aussie 416 owners consider the 340gn an excellent allrounder.Turns the gun into a scaled up 30-06 and can be used on everything from pigs and deer out to medium/long range to buff . They flatten medium game decisevly and kill the bigger stuff as well as anything else.

Keep in mind Aussies don't get as tied up as the yanks and africans on perfect bullets and calibres. Eg the 338win is considered the general minimum when 'talking about' shooting scrub bulls but the reailty is you may stumble on herds of them when hunting hogs or vice versa and thus you hit them with whatever you have on you.

quote:

Has anyone used 340 gr Woodleigh softs? I am really keen to know how they perform on heavy game and also at long range on deer / PG. Aussie members might be experienced ...??

Naki

Back in 2005 I used the 340 Woodleigh in one of my M70 416 Rems in Tanzania for lesser critters, several zebra, several hartebeast, Roan, Leopard, and a few lesser critters. Performance was SUPERB. I was running it at 2550 and it hammered everything. Excellent Conventional bullet. When I designed the 416 B&M I had this bullet very much in mind as it would be a perfect conventional for it, and it is.....

Michael

Thanks guys.

I am dreaming & planning my first african safari. Will it be buffalo in Zim or take my wife to SA for some hunting & other stuff to celebrate our 25th year!

Either way I could take my 416 Riby.

Can someone help me with a loading question?

Background:
I have some loads with 102.5 grains R-17 in a 416 Rigby with a 350 gn TSX (1.42" bullet length). Incidently, it travels 2825fps.

I would like to load up a batch of cartridges with the 350 gn. TTSX (1.603") for the same rifle and pressures.

Because the TTSX reduces the powder capacity, how much less of a charge will produce the same pressure in the same rifle with the same powder/primer/cases? 1 grain less? 2 grains less?

So if I want to load up a batch of cartridges to the same pressure, should I use 101.5 gn. R-17 with the TTSX? More, or Less?

-

PS: I must commit to the loading charge before any extra testing. I am hoping that a Quickload calculation can provide the relative powder charge for the situation where everything but the bullet (length) remains the same. Yes, this assume that the bullet company produces approximately the same diameter and shank area on the bullets.

I have had excellent results with the 400 gr. Nosler partition, they set the partition forward sometime back and they really work..

I also love those 350 gr Woodleigh PP, and you have the wonderful North Forks and GS customs bullets. I have used all the above on buffalo, and other DG and all are outstanding bullets.

I suspect if I was hung by my toes upside down and told I had to make a decision on the best bullets in my 416 Rem, I would opt for the GS Customs HV and flat nose solids.

Do not overlook the 350 TTSX bullets!

quote:

Originally posted by 30378:
Do not overlook the 350 TTSX bullets!

AS a follow-up on my comments above, when loading the TTSX I now plan to use 99 grains of R-17 instead of the 102.5 grains with the TSX. The TTSX bullet is .18" longer and needs to have 3.5 grains of powder removed in order to reach the same pressures. That may result in a 25fps reduced velocity (2800fps instead of 2825), but the BC is so much better that it will fly flatter and resist the wind better.

the 350gn TSX at 2825fps and 2.1" max height will drop -6.9" at 300yd, and -21.6 at 400 yd. The wind drift is 8.3" at 300 yards and 15.4" at 400 yards.

The 350 gn TTSX at 2800 fps and 2.1" max height will drop -6.9" at 300 yd. and 20.9" at 400 yd. The wind drift is 6.6" at 300 yards and 12.1" at 400 yards. So the 350 gn TTSX is definitely the better flying bullet. Their terminal effect on animals will be almost identical, but the TTSX may fly an inch or so straighter as the distances reach out across an mbuga (flat forest opening).

Does anyone know how the 340 Woodleigh performs on large animals at 2800 fps?


BTW the packet says it is designed for max 2400 fps ....

I know I can drive the barnes TSX to that velocity. I am wondering what I should aim for the 340 Woodleighs

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Does anyone know how the 340 Woodleigh performs on large animals at 2800 fps?


BTW the packet says it is designed for max 2400 fps ....

I know I can drive the barnes TSX to that velocity. I am wondering what I should aim for the 340 Woodleighs

Reports of failure or shallow penetration are usually linked to pushing the Woodleigh faster than the recommended velocities. I would stay with their recommendations. Of course, if you are going to limit the bullet to 2400fps, then go to a heavier weight. I believe Woodleigh still does a 450 grainer that ought to work fine at 2400-2450fps and will use the Rigby capacity.

Optimally, I would recommend finding a bullet that will be guaranteed to work at 2800fps. The Barnes 350 TTSX and TSX are both great for this. Likewise, the GSC 330 gn HV. Save the Woodleigh for plinking and non-dangerous game situations.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Does anyone know how the 340 Woodleigh performs on large animals at 2800 fps?


BTW the packet says it is designed for max 2400 fps ....

I know I can drive the barnes TSX to that velocity. I am wondering what I should aim for the 340 Woodleighs

Load some up and try them on pigs. If the do not go straight through without blowing the offside wide open they should do for the bigger stuff. I have found the recommended max impact velocity for the 358 cal Woodlieghs to be somewhat on the conservative side.

Thanks guys. Yes I agree with those suggestions. The issue for me is availablity.

I have 100 of the 340 Woodleighs & 50 of the 350 TSX. Another 200 of the Hornady 400 gr RN (Not GSX).

I can get 450 Woodleigh Solids but not softs.

Lavaca, PM me and I can help you if you have a 416 Rigby.

IMHO, the 416 Rigby is very happy with the 400 grain flat nosed Barnes Banded solids for the maximum in penetration. I shot a large elephant with two, side brain shots, neither recovered, as they went thru. Elephant was DRT. Also, the ATF has not stopped the BBS in 416, they are still available.

Also in my opinion, the 400 grain TSX is very good, very flat shooting, and turns the lights off in mean critters well. Here is a picture of four of them from a Cape buffalo, the first two stopped him, the second two are the coup de grace, from the spine down thru the brisket. All still weigh right at 400 grains, all recovered under the hide on the off side.



Given that kind of penetration, and toughness, I'd be hard pressed to use anything else, these things work.

Nice pictures of bullets.

The only query for the Rigby is the 400 grain flatnosed monolithic solid with a 16.5" twist barrel. I've stayed with 350 grains for extra stability.

For expanding bullets, I would add the Swift A-Frames and the North Fork soft point and cup point to your list. I have only heard good things about them and sure liked the performance of the 300g A-Frame from my 375 Weatherby at 13 yards on brown bear. I've never hunted buffalo (hope to some year) but I've read both A-Frames and North Forks are at the top of the list along with the TSX and a few others.

Here are some 350 grain Swift A Frames recovered from two different Buff. If my memory serves me well they had retained about 78% of their weight. But then I am an old guy

370 grain Northforks are the lightest I would use.

And if not those, then 400's or 410's of good construction, and nothing less, for anything that might be inclined to take exception to being shot.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
370 grain Northforks are the lightest I would use.

And if not those, then 400's or 410's of good construction, and nothing less, for anything that might be inclined to take exception to being shot.

That is good advice for lead-core bullets.
For all-copper bullets the same effect is achieved or bettered with a ten per cent drop in weight. That means that the old 'rule of thumb' of .300 sectional density for buffalo can be dropped to .270 in all copper bullets.

The .416" 350gn TSX, TTSX, and 330gn GSC all do fine on Mr. Mbogo.

The "non-con"s, on the otherhand, are breaking all rules and 458Michael has had good results down at .200 sectional density. Basically, the core of the bullet travels like a solid so that it penetrates deeper than expanding bullets, while the petals explode outward to produce a very expanded wound channel for the first foot of penetration, including buffalo vitals.

I have good luck using 400 grain Swift A Frames and 400 Grain Barnes Banded Solids.

Our boy CrossL had extremely good success using the BBW#13 Combination 350 #13 Solid and Matching 325 #13 NonCon on elephant and buffalo last year. Several other guys have just hammered buffalo with the same combination.

There is also in the BBW#13s 400/370 combo.

And, if you have 416, and don't look at this new 225 #13 NonCon I did a few months ago, you are missing out. As I know, anything short of buffalo, this will slam hammer. And to be honest, personally, myself.. I would do buffalo with it just to see. I would not recommend you do so however.

Michael