I am really enjoying all of learning and teaching that goes on on this forum. I do have a few more questions. I have decided to keep my winchester safari classic in 375. The first question that I have for you all is about the early M 70 stock design. I was reading that the early stocks were pretty much built for iron sights. If this is correct, would the early winchester stock throw up like the current CZ hogback stock, or is the CZ design more of a compromise for both iron sights and a low mounted scopes? Second question is about the winchester 458 round. Is this round just a 375 H&H opened up to 458? Last question (for now!) is what is a quarter rib for, besides looking good? Thanks again for your help!

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Originally posted by GaryG:
The first question that I have for you all is about the early M 70 stock design. I was reading that the early stocks were pretty much built for iron sights. If this is correct, would the early winchester stock throw up like the current CZ hogback stock, or is the CZ design more of a compromise for both iron sights and a low mounted scopes?

IMO the early (pre-64) M-70 rifles were well adaptable to scopes. The Remington 721 etc series was not!!! Way too much drop!!!

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Second question is about the winchester 458 round. Is this round just a 375 H&H opened up to 458?

No...if one opened up the 375 H&H to 458 he would have something akin to the 458 Lott.

The 458 Win Mag is a 2.5" case with a straight wall and a 458" bullet.

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Last question (for now!) is what is a quarter rib for, besides looking good? Thanks again for your help!

The quarter rib holds the rear sights and at times there are many all which fold down and are used for different ranges.

That said...IMO it's mostly decorative today as it's not needed.

Hello GaryG & Happy Holidays,

1. Excellent decision to keep your M70 Safari Classic. I know the guys here on AR supported that decision.

2. All rifle "early" stock designs were set-up for iron and/or apperature (peep) sights due to scope design and manufacturing being in its infancy.

3. No, an early Winchester stock will not throw-up like the current CZ Hogback (Bavarian)stock design.

4. The Bavarian (Hogback) stock design is to control recoil with an upward recoil roll instead of straight back recoil like your M70. Quite a different feeling of recoil management.

5. The .458 Winchester Magnum was introduced in approximately 1955 and is based on a shortened .375 H&H to work through standard length (.30-06 Springfield) actions like the pre-64 M70 Winchester. After WWII the UK and German ammo plants were out of business and the .458 Win Mag filled the gap for a caliber bigger than .375 that was readily available to the market. The .458 Win Mag attempted to duplicate the ballistics of a .470 Nitro Express; 500 grain bullet at 2150 fps. The .338 Win Mag and the .264 Win Mag are necked down .458 Win Mags. The .300 Win Mag is a slightly different case design. You can fire .458 Win Mags out of a .458 Lott chamber because they are both straight walled cases that headspace on the belt and the 458 Win is shorter than the 458 Lott. You CAN NOT fire a 458 Lott out of a 458 Win chamber.

6. The quarter rib serves to provide a better sighting plane by directing the eye for faster target acquisition, a platform for rear folding express sights for different distance, enhanced artistic apperance, additional weight and stiffness. Very expensive option for a rifle.

My Dad has a pre 64 model 70 {1952} and it takes to a scope well which I believe Winchester intended it for. I've got two model 70's a 375 H&H and 300 Win {post 64's} that are very simalar in stock design that are more accomidating to a scope than iron sights allthough the 375 does have good irons. About the 458 Win I believe it was a takeoff of the 375H&H but shortened to fit standard length actions for economical and manufacturering purposes only- costs more to produce H&H length actions. Vapodog nailed the quarter rib for sure. Hope I was some help. R.

Thank you for the education! More questions now. Does anyone build a bavarian styled stock to fit the winchester safari long action? Who would you trust for such a project? Next,I am going to guess that someone has opened up that 375 to 45. With what results? A "just in case" question for some other day. If this is possible, perhaps a simple rebarrel job would work for such a project?

Bavarian style stocks have not been popular in the US probably because we learn to shoot on the classic style(s)when we are young. I am not aware of a drop-in after market Bavarian stock for a M70. A custom stock maker could craft one for you. Possibly a post on the Gunsmithing forum could answer the question for a recommended stock maker.

As far as "opening up" for a .458 claiber:

1. You have the M70 Classic which has a .375 H&H length action so the action does not need to be "opened up" length wise to build a .458 Lott. Re-barreling to .458 would do it.

2. Are you talking about re-cutting the rifle bore to .458 caliber from .375? I don't have experience here.

Bottom line for me: Don't modify your current .375 H&H M70 Safari Classic.

There are several aftermarket and custom stock companies that offer fit to finish {rough} to bolt on options. Keep the original! And there are some good smiths here on the forums that could possibly help you better than me with suggestions and possibly services. A full length 375 H&H opened up to 45 would be the 458 Lott or at least close enough to work with whatever shrinkage there would be from fire forming. 375H&H 2.850---458 Lott 2.800 . R.

Buliwyf, I was just "thinking out loud" about the 45 conversion. I was just wondering what was possible. As for the stock, I think that all of mine are classic or the weatherby style. I use scopes on all of them. I want to have the option of really using iron sights on buffalo at 100 yards or less. The scope would be the backup. This is why I am looking for the bavarian style stock. Something that throws right up for the iron sights.

Check out the Ruger M77 Magnum and see what you think about it's stock design. This is a turn of the century classic stock design featuring the use of the quarter rib express sights as primary sighting.