Initial run…

Finally got around to trying the Water Bucket Train with the 600 Overkill…

Of course Mr. Murphy had to make an appearance and make sure not everything went as planned. I tried to video the test from the side view using my wife’s digital camera set up on a tripod at a safe distance. Upon retrieval of the camera I discovered that the only thing that was recorded was me walking back to the truck…not very exciting…

Secondly, my teenage nephews helped me set up and clean up the whole production (I’m sure as hell not lugging all those buckets down the hill by myself). I was very careful to explain to them that I wanted the buckets kept in the order they were shot in. They were able to do that but did get the lids mixed up (next time I’ll label the buckets and lids before I shoot them)…

Anyway onto the results and pictures…

I was using Alaskan Bullet Works 900 grain Kodiak bonded bullet over 160 grains of H4350 wrapped up in Jamison brass and primed with Federal 215s…

Muzzle velocity was 2105 fps and impact velocity at 25 yards was approximately 2050…

Upon inspection I found the jacket in the third bucket and the remaining core had firmly dented the bottom of the fourth bucket…

Here are the pics…

Initial set up…



Buckets 1&2…



Buckets 3&4 – showing dent in # 4…



Recovered core and jacket…






RIP, what do ya think? Does that count as making it through four even though it lost its jacket and only dented the bottom of the last bucket?

I wasn’t able to lay all five buckets top to bottom so the fifth was set up on its end…

Buckets 4 & 5 were knocked off the platform…

I believe next time I’ll try to brace the whole train so it won’t slide off, perhaps that would have helped and maybe got it through the end of the fourth bucket…

I’m going to try this again (video results hopefully)…

Anyone got any changes or suggestions?

My private shooting range (aka the 10 acres of my dad’s that border my property) has been sold to my sister to build her house so my shooting time there is limited and I need to destroy as many buckets in the next few weekends as possible…

I’m pretty sure the Woodleigh bullets have been tested before so I was thinking of trying the ABW at a different velocity…

Matt V.

I was laughing my ass off with your video description - as you may have seen from my (edited) videos, I had the same thing. Bitterroot and others pointed out that I needed suspenders since my rear-end was featured prominently in same videos.

I have to say that I am surprised that the bonded Kodiaks de-bonded! Would love to see your next test using 900 Barnes Banded solids!

Thanks for the pics and the description - I needed it!

Paul,

At least you actually got some cool shooting on your vids...

Mine was about exciting as watching a fat guy (me) walk through a hay field!

I was surprised the Kodiaks lost their jacket as well...

I think I’d need a lot more buckets for the Barnes solids…

Since you guys have such sophisticated testing gear now, I suppose I should send you some of my new 900 gr cup point bore riders for testing. So far they smash rocks in NV real well. Woodleigh softs usually dont penetrate very far, but dont come apart either. The result is always a smokin ball of lead about 1 inch or more in diameter.- -Rob

Boy Matt---I too wouldn't have thought the Kodiaks would de-laminate like that. I got about the same penetration in my test but Like Rob said, they stay together really well, just open up like a bomb. In fact, just today, I drilled some Kodiaks out into hollw points to test expansion thinking them too hard

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Since you guys have such sophisticated testing gear now, I suppose I should send you some of my new 900 gr cup point bore riders for testing. So far they smash rocks in NV real well. Woodleigh softs usually dont penetrate very far, but dont come apart either. The result is always a smokin ball of lead about 1 inch or more in diameter.- -Rob

PS---Bullet Pics Rob

I'm also surpride your buckets held up that well

http://www.youtube.com/v/De8QIMsi6dE&hl=en&fs=

http://www.youtube.com/v/OpMUQ5Bz3ag&hl=en&fs=1"

Looks like the Weldcore stays together better than the Kodiak….

I just wish the Weldcore did not have so much exposed lead up front…

Perhaps then the expansion would be more controlled and they wouldn’t get so beat up in the magazine…

Rob,

I’d love to try out the bore riders…

What do you think I could get out of my 20†tube?

Joe,

Those Vids are awesome…

I was surprised my buckets weren’t tore up worse as well…

Though the water explosion was quite spectacular…

It appears my buckets were bonded better than my bullets…

Matt V.

The new 900gr cuppoint Boreriders still need a few more tests and perhaps some design improvements. It turns out that making really good bullets is harder than anyone thinks! Nevertheless so far what I know is they function correctly as Bore riders. There appears to be a big advantage in reduced perceived recoil probably because so little metal is actually being engraved. They appear stable coming out of a 1:20 TWIST but I need to confirm this with group testing at 50 and 100yrds. They can be seated and crimped with full case capacity. The very large meplat in front may also require some ramp work on certain guns for reliable feeding from the left side of a staggered magazine gun( right side feeds perfectly). This is not an issue with those of you fortunate and smart enough to use a single stack mag. The main problem is the cost of copper which results in each bullet being about $1.80 in materials alone. These things will be about $4 apiece when I add machine time( which isnt minor on these guys) and heat treating. Therefore, their performance had better be worth it! The great advantage of copper is it wont deform in the mag box it will yield maximal penetration and will still expand to some degree.Unlike many other folks nothing will ever come out of my shop that isnt perfect.-Rob

trophyhunter5000,
Must be something to this "bigger is better penetrator" thing, besides the woman's point of view.

Your bullet scored a "4" on the WBT scale.
If it dents the bottom of that bucket, it gets to claim that bucket, no more.

The best I have done with the .395 Tatanka and 340-grain GSC HV's at about 2600 fps is to dent the bottom of the third bucket, a "3."

Excellent work.

Kodiak bonding leaves something to be desired, eh?

Were your buckets sealed with rubber O-rings in the lids, or were they water-tight without O-rings?

You did not have leakage and air space in the top of the buckets did you? That would falsely inflate your WBT score, if the bullets traversed some air instead of all water.

If you test solids, you better line up about at least 8 buckets, and 10 would be better, for the 600OK.

The WBT is great for testing softpoint integrity versus velocity.

For solids, the IWBB, is better.

You "done good" in finding the bonding flaw.

This "Water Bucket Train" apparatus can be the "International Normalized Rating" of softpoint bullet performance:

WBT(INR)

Very consistent and easy to reproduce the same medium between a bunch of testers to compare bullet performance of softpoints.




The beams and deck stephangers could be set upon a picnic table or left on the ground where the terrain and shooting angle allows.

When you get to solids, the IWBB has been calibrated to "Elephant Inches" thanks to Andy's help.



Strong entry end:



Weak terminal end:



Ten compartments that are 10 inches deep each. Each compartment, or "IWBB rumen," has 8 inches of water, 1 inch of plywood, and one inch of plastic and air. Subtract 1 inch for each rumen traversed to convert
"Iron WaterBoard Buffalo Inches"
to
"Elephant Inches."



Of course the IWBB performance could be duplicated by simply standing the water baskets (Sterilite 9 quart small trash basket from Walmart for about $1.69 each) and plywood boards on a tabletop beam setup without the steel frame.

You will just have to label all the boards and buckets and pick them up from the surrounding terrain after each shot.

The 600OK has scored a WBT(INR) = 4.
Outstanding!!!

Rob,waiting patiently as I think these in Copper will be Perfect for my Center feed Rifle/cannon!

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
The new 900gr cuppoint Boreriders still need a few more tests and perhaps some design improvements. It turns out that making really good bullets is harder than anyone thinks! Nevertheless so far what I know is they function correctly as Bore riders. There appears to be a big advantage in reduced perceived recoil probably because so little metal is actually being engraved. They appear stable coming out of a 1:20 TWIST but I need to confirm this with group testing at 50 and 100yrds. They can be seated and crimped with full case capacity. The very large meplat in front may also require some ramp work on certain guns for reliable feeding from the left side of a staggered magazine gun( right side feeds perfectly). This is not an issue with those of you fortunate and smart enough to use a single stack mag. The main problem is the cost of copper which results in each bullet being about $1.80 in materials alone. These things will be about $4 apiece when I add machine time( which isnt minor on these guys) and heat treating. Therefore, their performance had better be worth it! The great advantage of copper is it wont deform in the mag box it will yield maximal penetration and will still expand to some degree.Unlike many other folks nothing will ever come out of my shop that isnt perfect.-Rob

Safarikid- Almost ready to send you some. i still need a few more tests. If Im right at 2200fps these should go 8-10 WBT score. -Rob

Thanks RIP...

I was pretty excited when I found the core denting in the bottom of the fourth bucket and was equally shocked to find the jacket had been shed…

My buckets did not have the rubber o-rings but were water tight without them…

Each one was filled to overflowing and the lid was snapped on tightly pushing out any excess water and eliminating any air space…

Each bucket was then laid on its side in my garage to check for leakage…

Just to be sure the time lapsed between setting them up and shooting them was very short…

It’ll be a little while till I build an IWB of my own…

Right now just wanting to test as many different kinds of expanders as possible for my buff hunt next year…

Rob’s cup point bore riders look very promising…

Just hope I could get at least 2150 out of my 20†tube with them…

Anyway…

The WBT is an awesome idea for bullet testing…

Easy to set up, use, repeat, and compare…

You can also be socially responsible by recycling all your dead buckets…

As far as “bigger is better penetrator†you can’t forget the importance of shot placement either…

Matt V.

a WBT with balistic gelatin would be even better.-Rob