I just bought a Winchester Model 70 .375H&H Safari Express and was all set for some major recoil. The kind that jars the head and snaps the neck leaving you with headaches. So I buy an ambidextrous Past Magnum Plus recoil shield to get ready to manage all this recoil while at the bench and after the first shot I decided I didn't need it. I was pleasantly surprised to find that to me, the rifle doesn't feel like it recoils much more than an .06. And here I'd been apprehinsive all this time for nothing.

DennisHP,

Same thing with me. I used the recoil shield for about 5 shots on the .375. When I got my .416 Rem, I thought I would get some use out of the recoil shield. The .416 kicks more than the the .375, but I find I really don't need it for the .416 either.

I was helping a neighbor site in his .257 Weatherby. He warned me that I should hold on to the forend very tightly or it will really recoil on me. I just smiled.

Regards,

Terry

What are you shooting out of your 375, and, what kind of rifle and stock?
s

DennisHP

Thats �cause your rifle weighs a ton, unloaded.... My .375 is 8 pounds scoped and loaded, so I always use the Past when shooting it from a bench. When practising though, off-hand or sitting, I don�t need it either. Had the same experience you had, braced myself for the worst but found the rifle was just fun to shoot. Funny thing is I have a light 7RM that has much lighter recoil in theory, but it bruises my shoulder all the same. Shot 20 rounds with it wearing a T-shirt last summer, knocked me black and blue. Its probably due to a hard rubber buttpad with som sharp edges. Perceived recoil seems to me to be the sum of a lot of factors beside pure theoretical recoil energy.

Tron

I had much the same experience as you. When I first shot my new M70 stainless .375 H&H I pointed it towards the target, turned my head and grimaced, then pulled the trigger. I was expecting to pick my shoulder up out of the bushs twenty yards behind me. When I opened my eyes after the shot the first thing I said was "that's all?, that's the awful kick I've been hearing about?". Truth be told the .375 doesn't kick much at all, especially with a well designed stock. I've had .270's in poorly stocked rifles kick me much worst than my .375.

I had the same experience with an M-70 Safari in .375. Recoil was unremarkable with a scope. However, without the scope, it bruised my cheek with every shot. That stock is definitely designed for scope use.

Pertinax

Socrates, it's a totally Stock Model 70 375H&H and I was shooting some handloaded 250gr Sierra GameKings with 72gr RL-15 and some factory Federal Premium 270gr.

Pertinax, I shot a few rounds without the scope and expected some cheek pain but that was non-existant as well.

Stick some 300's at 2,600fps+ in there and see if you notice a difference, I did ... It still wasn't to bad, but the difference is noticable, or maybe it's just me...

What Rancher said except shoot it from the prone!

Rancher, I noticed the difference going from the 250gr handloads to 270gr Federal's but it was still very manageable for me. I'll work up slowly for practice and then shoot whatever I decide to use in Africa for a month or two before I go.

Gentelmen, there is only one bullet weight for the 375 H&H, and that is 300 grs, @ 2550 fps, be it soft or solid. Anything other than a 300 gr bullet is a varmint bullet!

You will be surprised how flat the 375 H&H shoots with a decent load behind a 300 gr Nosler partition. Beware the man who only shoots one rifle with only one load, he'll hit what he shoots at every time!

The recoil is not bad with a 300 gr @ 2550 fps load, and you may as well learn to shoot what it was designed for! Today the 9.3X74R is just about the smallest chambering I shoot for anything, but my 375 H&H rifles get an airing regularly! Both are medium bores, and both are well suited to one rifle for the world status!

[ 12-13-2002, 01:54: Message edited by: MacD37 ]

MacD, That sounds like my kind of good advice! When I started shooting the 9.3x62 I resolved to shoot only 286grain Nosler partitions out of it. I feel the same way about the 375 and 300 grainers. If I'm going to shoot another bullet weight I'll use another rifle.

I am looking to shoot 270 gr woodleigh's from my .375 I have on lay buy, and I thought if I need more than a 270 gr woodleigh then I will need 410 grains of woodleigh from my .416 Rigby.

I thought the 270 gr loading would shoot substantially flatter more like a 30/06 trajectory. How much perfromance am I giving up with the 270 gr weight bullets over the 300's ?

PC

Your�e giving up absolutely nothing. Or with the exeption of a small amount of penetration. The 270 grain bullet is to the .375 what the 180 grain bullet is to the .30 calibers. I have no experience with thick skinned/dangerous game but I think the 270 gr Woodleigh will be fine. This is a note I made after checking the ballistics using Normas ballistic calculator, it was an exel file, so it may look a little strang, and its in Norwegian, but you get the point, it shows velocity in meters/second and energy i Joules at 200 meters. Muzzle velocity is actual vel. from my gun.

NOTAT - .375 HOLLAND & HOLLAND

Type Vekt SD BC Mv0 V200 E200

Woodl. 270 PP .275 .352 850 680 4053
270 SP .275 .380 850 693 4214
300 PP .305 .420 780 645 4052
300 SP .305 .425 780 646 4070

Barnes 235 XLC .239 .400 890 735 4125
270 XLC .275 .503 850 730 4671

Nosler 260 PT .264 .314 870 679 3892
260 BT .264 .473 870 739 4621
300 PT .305 .400 780 638 3973
Personally I use two loads, one with the 235 barnes, accurate in my rifle and ok for deer, or even moose/elk. The other load is with the Woodleigh 300 grain pp and solid, fine for moose and for keeping the dream of africa alive. For practice I use 235 Speer. I have QD scope mounts and use one scope (high magn.) with the 235 gr and one (low magn.) with the 300 gr, so all loads are allways zeroed and ready to go. I feel it turns my .375 into a real allrounder.
Tron

TRB,

thanks for all that information. It sounds like agreat set up you have with your .375.

I have thought about sticking to 270 grainers in my .375

But the set up you have certainly has it's good points.

I just can not wait to get my .375 It is going to become my "go to" rifle for all round work. You have 30/06 trajectory with good bore size.

What scopes do you have for your .375 ??, what rifle and what brand of mounts did you choose ??

PC.

I like the 300 and 350 gr. bullets in a 375 and the 400 and 450 gr. bullets in a 416...I like heavy for caliber bullets unless the shooting is likly to be beyound 300 yds....

PC

I have a german Blaser R93. I use the original factory "saddle" mounts. They go on and of without changing zero. I have shot several three shot groups taking the scope off and back on between shots and the groups stay within 1 moa using my best loads.

I have a S & B 2,5-10x56 that I use with the 235 load. The reason for this big scope is that I use it as a general purpose load for deer and sometimes I hunt in the early dawn when light is very low, and even in moonlight (full moon) after the frost (snow on the ground). Also I have a 1,5-6x42 Meopta that is used with the 300 grain load for moose (and hopefuly africa, one day!).

Check out;

http://www.blaser.de/english/produkte/r93/index.html

The rifle weighs 8,5 pounds scoped and loaded, so I can carry it all day without getting frustrated. I used to have a cz550 with a leupold 1-4x22. It was a good rifle, but a little long and heavy for a general purp. hunting rifle. I used 270 and 300 grain bullets. I think 270 gr is excellent for an all round load.

Tron

TRB,

I really liked that sfari model blaser it looked good. How do you find the Meopta scopes ??

Ray,

What are some good available-in-America 350 grain bullets for the 375?

My M70 doesn't have a scope yet. With 300 grain bullets at 2550 or Remington 270 grain factory loads, it kicks harder than my 30-06, but less hard than my 870 with 12 ga. 3" 1 oz. slugs. Way less than a 470 NE I shot about a month back.

My PAST pad mostly collects dust nowadays. I pretty well have my turkey gun patterned, and I'd have to say it helped.

H. C.

[ 12-16-2002, 17:22: Message edited by: HenryC470 ]

PC

The meopta is good, optically like a leupold I guess, but in a heavy, steel tube construction and have european attributes like a 30mm tube and magnyfing reticle (does not change zero as you change magnification). Eye relief is just enough for me when used on a .375, I guess it could have been more generous.

The R93 Safari looks good, but I have the regular, lightweight version in .375, with a 26" barrel. The safari is very heavy (10 pounds unscoped) and have a 24" barrel. If I ever feel rich I will get a safari barrel in .416 rem for my R93, should be about 8,5 pounds without a scope and a little barrel-heavy for steady shooting when you adrenalin is flowing. What .375 gun are you getting?

Tron

I have been telling people for many years the 375HH is the most power you can get for your recoil investment. I don't think on average you will have a more powerful balanced rifle for the little recoil it gives you.

That is only one of the several reasons for is overwhelming success throughout history. The 270 grain Hornady and 270 grain Swift A frame bullets at 2800+ fps are flatter shooting then the 30/06 with 180's and hit with plenty of impressive impact. I think that combination is the load to beat unless your shooting game over 1000 pounds in body weight. If you are then I would just move to the 300 A frame, the X bullet if your rifle shoots them well or solids.

TRB,

I am a "man of straw" so it is a cz 550 for me. I have paid for half of it. It cost me $1280AUS and I figure were else can you get a magnum length action with double square bridges and express sights and drop mag which holds 5 shots for that money ?? I neally purchased a winchester M70 but in my opinion there to dear for what they are and both rifles need extra's which makes the win m70 to dear IMHO. I also have a cz in .416 Rigby and a .585 Nyati built on a 602 action so it makes sense for me to stick to the same types of actions and really get a feel for them if you know what I mean. I am a CZ convert I reckon there excellent value and I there will be more enetring my gunsafe in the future if all goes to plan....

I have a set of Warne QD's that I will be mounting my scope in and have ordered a set of talley levers & screws to replace warnes spring loaded set up which others here have crtizised. I also have a 2-7x33 Vari X 11 which I think will get the nod for my .375 and I feel this could be a good setup to take advantage of the 30/06 like trajectory of the .375 with 270 gr bullets. It may be a better scope in the evening as well I don't know.

I sold my win 94 30/30 to help finance my .375, I was just sick of the 30/30, it really bores me !!

The 2-7x33 was on my .416 Rigby and it has heaps of eye releif on 2x as well as on 7x and handled the recoil no drama's. It just did not look right on a .416 rigby if you know what I mean.

Shout yourself that .416 rem barrel, 100 pieces of brass and some woodleigh 410 gr bullets for christmas trb...you deserve it

JJhack I think your spot on the money with your .375 theory and I do not have mine yet !!

[ 12-17-2002, 03:42: Message edited by: PC ]

PC

Sounds like a great set-up. I used to have a CZ550 in .375, it was a "lucky gun", couldn�t move outside with it without getting a chance of shooting something. I really like them, much better than the M70�s I have seen here in Norway, and for a lot less money too. I mounted a 3-9x42 Kahles and shot mostly 300 grain Woodleighs. The Warne QR I got did not take the recoil though, sheared the recoil lug right of, went with conetrol mounts. The CZ550 .375 got to long and heavy for me to carry when deer hunting in the Norwegian mountains, hence the Blaser, wich is a great rifle.

I just checked prices on things here in Norway and it seems I can get a CZ 550 in .458 win.mag for almost the same price as the Blaser .416 barrel. And I can always rechamber, now that the .458 Lott is a factory chambering...

Got to have a dream, right?

I also go with Jjhack on the bullet weights for an all-round set up.
Tron

TRB,

the .458 lott is definitely on my to-do list !! My next CZ following my .375 could be a .458 win mag as well, I have also had my eye on the 9.3x62 battue what are your thoughts on this rifle can a scope still be mounted and used with the battue ramp in place. How fast are battue sights to use ??

PC

Donno about the battue, I have never seen one in real life. People may think this is a european standby, but as far as I know they are not very popular. I would think nothing beats a low power (from 1,1 to 1,5 magn.) scope sight. Shot a walking deer at less than 10 yards this year with my scope at 4X. No problem. For really fast shooting (or more like pointing) I like a ghost ring sight, but I have never hunted dangerous game. I just figure there is a reason all dgr have a shallow V rear sight. Or maybe its just tradition.

Tron

Point taken TRB. I thought that everyone in Europe must use them as all the euro gun makers offer them.