I am going to buy a Marlin lever gun in one of the above calibers. But I just cant make up my mind. From what I read the 450 Marlin is a level II performing 45/70 load but the brass is a bit stronger. So that means if I reload the 45/70 myself I may be able to get it to perform like the 450 but I would have the added advantage of having lots of factory ammo available. But if I go with the 450 I may be able to squeaze even more out of it because the brass is stronger.

Are there other advantages to the 450 that I dont know about?

Buy the 45-70. With the 45-70 you have at least 2 levels of Factory Loads to shoot plus the handloads. I get 1840 fps with a 400 gr Speer from my Guide Gun. How much more fun can you really have. From the bench for load work up I had to break often as the back of my arm would go numb from the recoil.
Brass, ammo, and dies all favor the 45-70, even if you don't handload you can still buy from Buffalo Bore, Garrett, etc. Sean

The Marlin forum has discussions on this daily, what I took from them was that there wasn't really any difference in the strength of the brass but that the .45-70 actually has a bit more capacity. I think the .450 is like the .40S&W in that there's no +P load because it's already max'd out. The .38 Spl, 9mm, .45acp, .45-70 have a bit of wiggle room in modern firearms and can be run hotter than originally.

I bought the .45-70, it dearly wants to put the bullets thru the same hole at 100yds. I don't think you'll go wrong with a Marlin in either flavor.

Lone Eagle,

Do you get that big bruise on your right elbow from bench work too? 350gr Hornadys at a bit over 2,000 are gonna leave a mark somewhere's

Rick

[ 07-06-2003, 06:31: Message edited by: Rick R ]

It would definitely be the 45-70 cartridge due to the various reasons mentioned above. The 45-70 is a true American classic cartridge with a lot of history behind it. When the name 45-70 is mentioned, people usually associate it with the great American buffalo hunting era and it is just too cool to know about it. Good luck.

Thanks for the info guys.

Where would I find the Marlin Forum and what length of barrels are you using?

The other plus to going the 45/70 is that I can get stainless to match my 44mag rifle and ruger pistols

There is really not much difference between the two, so its a matter of choice, do you like rimmed or rimless? If you handload that is really the only difference, if you don't then the 45/70 is probably the best bet. I bought the 450 and I reload, but I just like the way the 450 looks. The guys at the marlin forum really know their stuff , go to marlin's web site and go to marlin talk, then go to big bores. Either way you go you are going to love it. Mine is the 18" GG. Recoil is noticabel, but very fun!!!! josh

schapman, like I said I have the Guide Gun with the 18.5" barrel. I also know of a guy that posts @ leverguns.com that lopped his GG off to 16.5" and from his chrono'd results he ither has a really fast barrel or he just isn't losing speed. He reported getting 1830 fps w/ a 400gr bullet.

Rick,
I try to keep something under my (left) elbow when shooting that especially with our new concrete bench tops. The worst mark I have gotten was from sitting at the bench and raising the muzzle to plink a rock high up the berm. The recoil pad caught a little skin right at the edge of my armpit betwwen it and the bench top Not a position I recommend duplicating. Sean

The difference in "strength" of the 45-70 and 450 Marlin brass is non-existant with respect to the Marlin lever-action as the action is the limiting factor. In a bolt-action I think there is a clear difference in favor of the 450 Marlin.

Thanks again for the info. I have made up my mind on the 45/70 in stainless. Now I need to decide if I should just save up the money or go put it on layaway. Any idea what the availability of the Marlin 1895GS is?

to a reloader, there is no practical difference... unless you like sans a belt...

as i've told my friends that have purchased them, the 45/70 can be loaded to the same levels... that the 450 marlin comes from the factory as.

the action is the weakest link, anyway.

get whichever you like... 45/70 brass and dies MIGHT be easier to get in your neck of the woods... or might not

for the record, the 74 gr water for the marlin, and 79 grains for the 45/70...

jeffe

Here is the Marlin Forum link:

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/cgi-bin/ubb/Ultimate.cgi

Everything you want to know about Marlins, and more...

Well I did it. I went and put money down on a 1895GS in 45/70. I should have it in a month or so. You all were a great help.

schapman43 I load the 45-70 in my ruger really heavy 60gn of ADI ar2207 MAX load I�m on my sixth reload of my Winchester cases primers are flatten ever time some of the primer pockets are a bit loose but have not had any case separation I use a feeler to check inside the cases so far they are fine.

[ 07-07-2003, 03:06: Message edited by: HuntDownunder ]

schapman43,
Heres a nice accurate load to try sometime,not too hot. 47grs.RL7 405gr.rem jsp. clocks 1750 out of my Ruger No.1
be sure to start lower and work up but this is a milder load in my rifle.

I get 1750 with a cast 405 out of my 10" BFR. You guys are just light loaders.

just kidding. not about my velocity though.

The 45-70 case has more volume so a similar velocity level should have lower pressure.

Does anyone have a good online source for reloading components?

I prefer Graf's www.grafs.com and MidSouth www.midsouthshooterssupply.com Sean

Lar45,
I hear you can get 2000fps. out of a 405gr.JSP in a rifle but I ain't going there!
Just curious whats your load that gets that 405 cast moving at 1750 out of a 10"er?
Been thinking of flirting with cast bullets but was worried about leading up the barrel.Do you get any leading or are you using gas checks.
Just kinda curious! rws2

schapman43,
I like www.midwayusa.com and www.cabelas.com also for reloading stuff. If I order early today(monday)from Midway I will have my stuff by (wednesday) at standard rates.

I ordered my 45-70 Brass from Midway. I got the Winchester bag of 500, it seemed like a good deal.

My load uses IMR 4227, CCI large rifle primer and a hard cast, water dropped wheel weights, 405gn, (LEE mold), lubed with Javalina. I don't have a gaschecked mold in 45-70 except for my 500gn mold. I haven't noticed any leading, but I'm sure a gascheck would help if any occured.
I'm at school now, so I don't have my load book in front of me for the powder charge.
The groups I got were around 1.6" at 50yds.
I tried some slower powders that gave 100% density, but the accuracy was TERRIBLE. The velocitys were real close with a small spread, but they just hit all over the place.
I don't get any pressure signs. The primers have a nice rounded edge, the cases just fall out when the gun is tipped up or they might need the slightest touch. I compared 450 Marlin load data and went from there.
I think the BFR could hold more pressure than the Marlin. The BFR is chambered for 475 Linebaugh which has published load data upwards of 50kpsi.
The gun is not pleasant to shoot at that level, but is still controlable.

Good choice..... I'll say it again (I just can't stop)

Next item to look into.. "Kisk-Eez Jr." recoil pad.

I shortend my Guide gun on both ends. Lost the ports and the factory pad in the process. Has less felt recoil now, with the Kick-Eez and no ports, than it did with ports and the factory pad.

I own two .450 Marlin but neither is a lever action. One is a Ruger No. 1 and the other is a Win. M70 and I have never regretted picking the .450 over the .45-70. If you reload you can really milk out the results with the .450. This and stronger brass(as stated by Hornady and others so flame them not me) is and added plus. With round nose and pointed bullets in my rifles it really shines. Lawdog

Get a .45/70! You can "coax" more out of that case than your Marlin can handle, so that part is not a problem! (I have no idea what the .450 would be capable of, vis-a-vis the .45/70, if you were using a bolt action or a Ruger No. 1! It would probably be a lot like Barnes' .450 X 2" American.) In addition, as you noted, there's more available for the .45/70 in factory ammo that the .450 has, at least at present. It may change, but I doubt it, since it does not appear, at least at this time, that the .450 has become wildly popular. But the .45/70 is in the top 10 in die sales every year, still, 130 years after its' introduction!!

[ 07-12-2003, 15:30: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

Congrats for a good choice!

I have loaded for my 1895 for four years now, cast bullets for a year. All in all,reloaded for 10+ years. Love the Marlin,shot it a LOT! I have a recoil pad installed,mostly because I am very tall and it helped to get the scope (1.5-4) right. I helps when shooting my insane loads from the bench,of course. Can do that all week until the shoulder asks for a break.

And here we go: I am one of these overload type of guys. My two favorite loads are a 350 grain Hornady @ 2150 fps and a cast Lee 405 grain @ 1950 fps. Same P.O.I at 75 meters,less than an inch five shot groups. SD very low,13 fps for ten rounds. These are not supposedly safe anymore but well, hundreds of these -and hotter- loads have been shot through this rifle. No loose primer pockets,the Starline brass takes many reloads until it needs trimming.

Vihtavuori powders,compressed. The 405 grainer starts to give sticky extraction at 2100+ and the accuracy is not there anymore but man,These Marlins can take a lot more than is said in the manuals that are for lawyers.

I am not telling anyone to go over listed max. loads,FYI only.

Just my experience here,see Buffalobore site for their loads.Mine are quite similar,I use relatively slow powders.No leading,no gas checks.

In case someone wants more info,I have a longer,pictured story with load data for the 405 grain Lee load here:

http://www.handloads.com/forum/showthread.asp?topic=8&thread=1280

EDIT: JUST REMEMBER I AM NOT RECOMMENDING TO TRY THESE LOADS,NEITHER SUGGESTING THEY ARE SAFE!

[ 07-12-2003, 17:37: Message edited by: Petander ]

Wow this is great, the info just keeps on coming!

It sounds like I may be getting the rifle a bit sooner than I thought. Just waiting to hear back from someone who is buying a car from me. May get the rifle as early as tomorrow!!