Ok now this is going to sound dumb but I've never used open sights before until I purchased my Ruger RSM. The Ruger book shows that you hold the bead at 6 o'clock on the target so the top of the bead is your point of impact. Is this right??? Or should i be using the a central hold so the bead centre is point of impact?? It's just that I read that express sight are quick...I found them slow because of trying to line up the top edge of the bead with the target centre took time. Or do I just have to practise until this becomes second nature??

Some have their open sights adjusted so bullets hit at the center of the beed at their prefered distance others use the top of the beed. If you rifle fits you, as it should if your going to use it on dangerous game, then the sights will be aligned when you cheek the rifle. You don't look at the sights but at the point on the animal where you want the bullet to hit. It takes too long in a DG scenario to try to align the rear and front sights. You need to practice this method so you will have the confidence to know that the sights will be aligned when you cheek the rifle and look through the sights.

465H&H

Combat style: bullet shoots to the center of the bead, fast.

Target style: bullet shoots to the top center of the bead, precise.

Your choice.

Like having a scoped rifle that shoots to zero at 100 yards with the heavy bullet, and it throws a lighter bullet 2 or 3 inches high at 100 yards.

Many are lucky enough to do this with 300-grainers and 270-grainers in a .375 H&H, whether with scope or bead.

Personally, I am like Ray A. and just as good with any type sight as another. So I use a combat/coarse bead at spitting distance and the target/fine/6 o'clock hold for any longer ranges. All my rifles would have a "6 0'clock" hold/setting of the sights. Up close and fast, just slapping a combat bead on the critter makes no significant difference in POI.


It is your choice and your responsibility to make the sights and the loads compatible with your shooting technique, to know the trajectory and estimate ranges well, and to know your limitations.

A man has got to know his limitations.
Some such as Ray A. and I do not have many limitations, and we know them well.

quote:

Originally posted by fordnutter:
Ok now this is going to sound dumb but I've never used open sights before until I purchased my Ruger RSM. The Ruger book shows that you hold the bead at 6 o'clock on the target so the top of the bead is your point of impact. Is this right??? Or should i be using the a central hold so the bead centre is point of impact?? It's just that I read that express sight are quick...I found them slow because of trying to line up the top edge of the bead with the target centre took time. Or do I just have to practise until this becomes second nature??

Assuming you are zeroing the DGR at 100 yards (?) then use the "hold the bead at 6 o'clock on the target so the top of the bead is your point of impact" technique. You will have a fine zero for precise shooting on smaller game if necessary and at most DG ranges (0-40 paces or so) the POI IS in the center of the bead.

Larry Gibson

Six o'clock hold for a target rifle, full bead for a hunting rifle.

How many times have you heard from guys who had to take a snap shot under pressure and time and time again the result was the same? They shot high. In a snap shot taken under pressure, the instinct is to just stick the bead where you want the bullet to go and shoot. If the sights are zeroed for a 6 o'clock hold, that gets you a high shot. For hunting, a full bead zero is more foolproof under all conditions. I've also found it much easier to hit moving game with a full bead hold. Calculating forward allowance and maintaining 6 o'clock hold at the same time is just more difficult.

This is also why the oversize beads found on many large bore rifles are a mistake.
----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

The ************ hunting ************ ************ ******* ***** ** ***** ***** ** Mondays ****** ****** ******* *** *** ***** ** full moon ***** ****** ***** full loads *** ***** *** **** *** trigger pull *** ** ****** **** **** ** Dow Jones ***** *** **** ***** ****** **** *** barrel length *** ******* *** ** *** **** ***** ** double rifle ** **** ******* **** ***** **** ** *** ** stainless steel ** ***** **** ** ***** *** ***** **** ** ** Swarovski * * ***** **** ****** **** * *** *** *** **** the weekend ** **** *** *** ****** ***** **** *** Jack OConnor ** *** **** *** * * ******* ***** *** * video *** ****** ********** ***** **** ** * Africa **** *** * * ******** ** * *** ** the southern hemisphere **** **** * * *** ***

is why I use a 6 o'clock hold.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
The ************ hunting ************ ************ ******* ***** ** ***** ***** ** Mondays ****** ****** ******* *** *** ***** ** full moon ***** ****** ***** full loads *** ***** *** **** *** trigger pull *** ** ****** **** **** ** Dow Jones ***** *** **** ***** ****** **** *** barrel length *** ******* *** ** *** **** ***** ** double rifle ** **** ******* **** ***** **** ** *** ** stainless steel ** ***** **** ** ***** *** ***** **** ** ** Swarovski * * ***** **** ****** **** * *** *** *** **** the weekend ** **** *** *** ****** ***** **** *** Jack OConnor ** *** **** *** * * ******* ***** *** * video *** ****** ********** ***** **** ** * Africa **** *** * * ******** ** * *** ** the southern hemisphere **** **** * * *** ***

is why I use a 6 o'clock hold.

Will, I didn't figure you could come up with a rational reason for your view.
----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Hit where you aim.
Aim where you hit!

Full bead on target!

All my rifle are sighted the same...I want the bullet to impact on top of the bead, that would be 1/2 to 1' high at 50 and 75 yds.

I would hold on the bottom of the eye of a buffalo if I wanted to shoot him in the eye, that way I can see where my target is, not guess.

I also take a course bead, not a fine bead, a fine bead takes extra time.

I do this on game or target, that way I do not get confused at the wrong time!

I like my front sight to cover where I want to hit. So I aim to center the front bead (generally fiber optic) right on the target, while it sits on top of a gold inlaid line running up from the bottom of the rear sight blade to the base of the "V" in the blade. That makes precise vertical line up very easy.

Then I zero my rifle by filing in the "V" in the rear sight so that my bullets hit the bull in the center when the center of the bead covers the bull at 50 yards. The trajectory is such that the same hold hits center, or close enough, at 25 and 100 yards.

Like most people, I do all my iron sight shooting at close range, under 150 yards, preferably much closer. This method is fast and natural to me. It is the way I learned to shoot my first .22 rifle. Any other iron sights or open sight aiming method I have tried have been less natural and slower.

For me, personally, six o'clock is for aiming with a Patridge front sight when target shooting only. It's also the beginning of the cocktail hour and coming up soon as I write this.

I was taught the 6 o'clock hold and use if for target shooting or hunting. Its not quite the same as shown in some books though...The very top edge of the bead is the POA. Often books show the top of the bead at 6 o'clock on the bullseye circle for an x-hit. The top of my bead is on the center of the x.

I don't mess around with different holds for different rifles, target vs hunting ets. Bullet lands where the top of the bead touches the target, at 100 yards. Anywhere between 25 and a 100yds it might be a little high, but generally less than an inch, which is close enough for anything but headshots on grouse.

I don't like covering the POA/POI with the bead....depending on distance that can be a lot of target covered up, especially with a buckhorn style rear sight.

Everybody's got their own style. The bottom line is pick one you like and practice it til its second nature.

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:
I was taught the 6 o'clock hold and use if for target shooting or hunting. Its not quite the same as shown in some books though...The very top edge of the bead is the POA. Often books show the top of the bead at 6 o'clock on the bullseye circle for an x-hit. The top of my bead is on the center of the x.

I don't mess around with different holds for different rifles, target vs hunting ets. Bullet lands where the top of the bead touches the target, at 100 yards. Anywhere between 25 and a 100yds it might be a little high, but generally less than an inch, which is close enough for anything but headshots on grouse.

I don't like covering the POA/POI with the bead....depending on distance that can be a lot of target covered up, especially with a buckhorn style rear sight.

Everybody's got their own style. The bottom line is pick one you like and practice it til its second nature.

Cheers,
Canuck

I agree with Canuck! I like a wide "V" with a large bead front, and with the bead resting in the bottom of the wide V, and the top of the front bead on POI. I shoot Ghost ring some,on bolt rifles, used for deer hunting, and in that case I use center of bead hold, with a fine bead in center of the ghost ring, which is a natural thing with a ghost ring. In any event, unless, I'm takeing a precise shot, I never actually am aware of the sights at all, but the rifle has to fit!

The elaborations by Canuck and Will are particularly helpful in explaining my method, which does indeed seem to be the majority take on how to draw a bead.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
All my rifle are sighted the same...I want the bullet to impact on top of the bead, that would be 1/2 to 1' high at 50 and 75 yds.

I would hold on the bottom of the eye of a buffalo if I wanted to shoot him in the eye, that way I can see where my target is, not guess.

I also take a course bead, not a fine bead, a fine bead takes extra time.

I do this on game or target, that way I do not get confused at the wrong time!

I agree w/ this 100%. I think those words are pearls of wisdom and are worth repeating.

I'll add that I find the bright polish blue on the RSM rear V and its tiny bead to have insufficient contrast. I prefer to have a matte enhanced shallow V w/ a larger front bead like #5 in the pic below:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Enha...rast_open_sights.svg

GVA

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
All my rifle are sighted the same...I want the bullet to impact on top of the bead, that would be 1/2 to 1' high at 50 and 75 yds.

I would hold on the bottom of the eye of a buffalo if I wanted to shoot him in the eye, that way I can see where my target is, not guess.

I also take a course bead, not a fine bead, a fine bead takes extra time.

I do this on game or target, that way I do not get confused at the wrong time!

My father taught me this over half a century ago, & I've sighted my rifles this way ever since. He called it a 6 o'clock hold. I use it in black powder competition as well. Usually have to cut the black in half on the 100 yd target with round 40 cal rd balls, but on CF's the hold is the same all the way to 100yds which is as far as I shoot game.

On an animal coming in at close range, 6 o'clock hold or center won't either be far off. I have never known anyone who used anything but 6'oclock hold that used irons or particularly handguns. Look and see how much a bead covers at 100 yards and your decision will be made for you. Another neat trick is that with most you can sight at 100 yards and hold the center of the bead in the center of the animal at 200 and be pretty close. With a handgun and a patridge sight, you put the bead on the target at long range, then tip it back in your hand till the top of the rear sight is where the bullet would hit with a normal hold(the amount of drop or a sighting shot). This works pretty darn good with a handgun and you don't have to cover the target with the sight. I think people shooting high on a quick shot is caused by not getting their head down(it certainly is the most common cause for a shotgun miss), or for anyone who has shot game coming in at close range, you almost have to be moving your rifle down as the animal closes the distance or you will shoot high, it is a form of lead. That is why shots missed are high as well as yanking the trigger, etc not using a 6 0'clock hold at 20 yards. I shoot handguns so much I could never adjust my style to a center hold anyway.

...I use ,, all the bead , the whole bead and nothing but the bead,, preferably with a flat rear blade with a line,or I file the v out very shallow, medium size bead, filed on a foward slopeing angle and with a flat surface.....I myself have found a hood that protects the fore sight from shadow that can throw the shot off quite a ways is important....I try to make all the different heigth adjustments in front sight , rear sight and comb/heel/LOP...I want my bullets to hit right in the middle of the bead @ 100 .,..I have had good success with this arangement out to 175 yrds or so.....Rifle HAS to FIT or be MADE to FIT...Then practice...

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
If you rifle fits you, as it should if your going to use it on dangerous game, then the sights will be aligned when you cheek the rifle. You don't look at the sights but at the point on the animal where you want the bullet to hit. It takes too long in a DG scenario to try to align the rear and front sights. You need to practice this method so you will have the confidence to know that the sights will be aligned when you cheek the rifle and look through the sights.

465H&H

I agree with 465H&H. For me this means at DG ranges the POI is right at the top of the bead, which is where I am looking.

If I hold at six o'clock on a round bull, the bullet holes cut the bottom of the bull. If I focus on the bottom of the round bull and not on the sights, my bullet holes also cut the bottom of the bull. At least if I am really concentrating.

JPK

It's great to get all the experience and feedback on this site. I guess that's why the AR forum is so popular. Well I'm off to the range this weekend to get plenty of practice. I've decided on the 6 o'clock hold and will practise until it becomes second nature. At the ranges I'm going to encounter a wild bush bull here in New Zealand I'm sure when the shit hits the fan that a panicked (opps I mean't deliberately accurate) centre bead placement hold will secure me one all the same.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. As you've just tried your iron sights at 50 yds, you found that it was "dead on" from the factory. Sometimes it gets just as simple as that. Maybe the 100 yd will also print "dead on" for you. Just go out and enjoy yourself because some rifles don't shoot to point of aim and you have to file the rear sight or replace the front sight. Consider yourself lucky that you can "paper" your rifle w/o any problems, I know I do with my rifles.