As I understand it, British guns are proof tested at the proof house in London, but American guns are proof tested by the manufacturer at his shop.

Why the difference and does it matter?

American guns do not have to be proof tested it is an option the maker decides on.

Many euro guns have to be proof tested by law.

My guess would be that the english guns have to be proof tested there by law.

500:

Yes, British firearms are proved in the government proof houses, but there are two - London and Birmingham. Britain has a national proof law, as does most of Europe. The US does not and proof is left up to the maker here.

Under the British rules of proof, all firearms manufactured and sold there must be proven in London or Birmingham. It is illegal to sell an unproven or out of proof weapon. Britain became a member of CIP in 1980 and has since recognized the proof marks of CIP member countries. Firearms manufactured in non-CIP countries (the US is not a member) and commercially imported into the UK must be submitted for British proof within 28 days of import. Such weapons imported for private use need not be submitted, but are considered unproofed and may not be sold.

Why? The idea behind the national proof law was to protect the shooting public. Because the gunmakers themselves oversee operation of the proof houses, compliance is virtually universal.

Does it matter? Well, it certainly isn't the only system that works but it has its benefits. There is never any question as to what proof standards a given gun was subjected to as they are rigidly standardized. The proof marks are standardized as well and widely understood there. This means that there is no question what load the weapon was proofed for and is safe to shoot with, as long as the weapon remains in proof. This is why the Brits don't have the fear that we do of shooting smokeless shells in damascus shotgun barrels. As long as they bear the Nitro Proof mark (NP) and remain in proof, they are safe to shoot with the smokeless load marked on the flats.

The British system works remarkably well and I like it a lot. Still, our system of leaving proof to the makers, and common sense to the shooter, has served us reasonably well.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I am glad that in the US, we do not have our government "proofing" our rifles, in fact... I am glad the government is not overseeing any aspect in the manufacturing safty of firearms. If it is or became ness. I would rather have a oversight group (org) assembled.
The litteraly MILLIONS of rounds fired each year in the united states, yeilds only a few "accidental" deaths involving "overloads" or the such. A stamp on anyones barrel will not prevent careless mistakes,and dumbasses hurting themselves.

Well said, Smallfry!

/

interesting information alf. sad state of affairs some people are.

What does it mean for a gun to be "out of proof" and how would one know that his gun is out of proof?

500grains,

Taking a 12 Gauge Side by Side Shotgun - British Made - proofed at 12 bore.

The gun is proofed and at this point The INTERNAL bore measurements of the barrels
are between .729 and .739/.740 (a bit of dispute exists here as to when a gun go out of 12 bore proof.
Most NEW guns will be between .727 and .732 - they DO NOT always leave the factory at exactly .729.

A shotgun as above stays in proof until EITHER of the INTERNAL bore measurements of the barrels
get to .739/.740.

IN ADDITION, if any work is done on the barrels and to a certain extent the gun (ie sleeving the barrels /
tightening), the gun should be reproofed - MUST be if it is sleeved.

A very good book exists on it but can't remeber the name at the moment - maybe someone else can
post the title.

Hope this helps

500 Nitro

500Nitro is correct. Measurements are taken very precisely. Then the firearm is fired with a "proof load", they are called blue loads here. The gun is again measured. If it meets the standard, it is stamped with the proof. In England it is illegal to sell a gun that has been tampered with. I know of at least one dealer who made the mistake of selling an out of proof gun over the internet. The forcing cones had been opened, and the chokes modified. He is now facing loss of license, a fine an potentially some jail time. This proof house system would be true in many european countries today.

In this country, proofing is done by the maker. It is done in accordance with SAAMI standards.

Pete

here is a question why don't we standardize on the CIP and have an optional US proof??

Aleko

For those that don't know about it, here's the web site address for the Birmingham Gun Barrel Proof House.


http://www.gunproof.com/

They even have some items for sale. Check out the the online store at http://www.gunproof.com/shop/system/index.html

-Bob F.

There are no proof houses in the USA...

I sold a fellow a 12 ga. 2-3/4" Jefferys shotgun, quite a rare gun...He had it appraised at Cabellas and the "jerk expert" told him it had been chambered out to 2-3/4" and reproofed in the USA....Also claimed it had damascuss barrels of all things, when it was marked steel.

After a bit of confirming it beared out my gun to be the real McCoy but that Cabellas appraiser caused me a lot of time and effort...I would have expected more from them on that...I left many messages for him to call me after I confirmed the authinticty of the gun, but he would not return my calls...

Apparantly he wanted to take the gun in trade at a ridiculas figure..probably for himself or he was just plain stupid...anyone could tell it was original by just looking at it...and reading the water table....