The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Scope ring failed—in the safe!Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Have had a 2.5X8 Leupold VX-III on my Win M70 .375 H&H for nearly 20 years through several trips to Africa. It was mounted on Warne Bases with Warne QD rings. Going on a leopard/bull ele hunt in June and decided to change scopes to a lighted reticle Swarovski Z6 2.5X10. Mounted late last summer...sighted in...put into safe to be ready for late spring practice. Opened up the safe the other day to grab a shotgun for a Kansas pheasant hunt and saw something on the floor. It was the QD claw plate and fractured end of the bolt and thumb-lever. The bolt just fractured spontaneously in the safe. This is giving me pause for using these QD mounts now. Bet Warne has changed manufacturing to China for these newer mounts. Thoughts? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | ||
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Change to a Leupold. I use a 4.5 x 14 x 50 on my .375's. Plenty of eye relief. Guns and hunting | |||
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Better you find the flaw now at home, rather than on the hunt! I have been happy with Talley QD bases and rings, but I doubt its a brand choice thing. I would think you are dealing with a defect in the material that caused this to happen like that. Is your safe exposed to different levels of temperature? That could explain why it happened like that also. | |||
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No...safe is in my gunshop which stays at a steady 68 in the winter and a steady 71 in the summer. It was a 100F outside when I sighted it in. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Anyone with thoughts on Warne??? I have had good look with them over the years...just don’t use many QD mounts. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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When you look at the through (clamp) bolts whether for thumb levers, serrated wheels or nut type fastenings to clamp the ring to the base they are all very small in shank diameter for the job they are being asked to do. The through bolt on the old Parker Hale rings we used to use for mounting scopes were notorious for snapping when tightening. For decades now I have used the original style Weaver rings with the over scope steel band, clipped one side and screwed the other. I have never had a broken or stripped screw or a broken through bolt on a Weaver ring and I used a coin or knife blade to tighten the knurled wheel. Never used levers as I cannot see the point of them other than something to gather debris on when in bush or accidentally loosened if travelling in rugged country. I can guarantee nobody has ever removed a quick release scope when actually facing a charge. They may have removed a scope before following up but a quick flick of a knife blade will release most any QD ring in this case. The less scope rings are removed and replaced on bases the less likely the ring through bolts will be over stressed, fractured and ultimately fail. IMO lever release rings encourage needless fiddling. | |||
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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lesson - don't shoot a rifle in the safe  | |||
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 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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My buddy had that happen with weaver rings on a dot sight on his 22 High Standard. | |||
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I have used the Warne QD for my first two safari's on a CZ 375 H&H. Planning on using QD's on a 416 M70 this summer and Warne permanent on a 338. I have never had any break yet but that don't mean they can't. Will definitely take a spare set. | |||
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I have busted both Talley and Warne rings. I am saving all my vertical split rings, like Talley and Warne, for use on 22 rimfire rifles. Get a proper Picatinny base, 2-piece or 1-piece rail. J-B Weld it to Rifle with 8x40 screws. Leupold Mark 4 bases come with 2 sets of screws, both 6x48 and 8x40. I now prefer Burris Xtreme Tactical to all other rings, if to be used on the cross-slot bases. The main mounting nut should be torqued to 65 inch-pounds. Carry a pocketsocket wrench for the half-inch nut. That is your QD-QD lever. I also use Leupold QRW rings as my second choice. I am going to scope a .416 WbyMag as above: Burris Xtac rings and Leupold Mark 4 base.  Rip...6 | |||
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I’m betting it was cast or worse sintered metal and had a significant flaw in it. Thank goodness it happened at home. My advice is to replace the Warnes with QD Talleys. I have used Talleys for many years on several rifles of different makes with ZERO problems. Including on the hardest kickers in the book. Keep everything tight and all will be well. Best of luck. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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This type of thing happens in manufacturing. The QC for a bolt or scope ring can only be so great. If you manufacture aircraft parts or medical parts, the QC has to be over the top. I know certain aircraft parts get X-Rayed and inspected for flaws. But thats why these parts cost thousands of dollars each. You cant QC a bolt for scope ring in this manner | |||
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I would just replace the screws in each ring and put it back together. I really doubt warne made the screws. If you call them they'd probably send you some new screws. I own/have used I think 7 sets of the warne QD rings in different sizes and vintages. They have all worked great and I can use one scope on a variety of rifles this way and the zero holds (assuming the scope has decent turrets). | |||
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Years ago, I had a lever break off on a pair of Leupold QDs on one of my African Rifles. Discovered that the lever was pot metal. I made the decision then and there to forget QDs entirely. All of my most current rifles carry the Talley one piece rings/base. I have never known a hunting situation in 15 African Safaris, as well as in hunting dangerous bears in Alaska, where I needed to remove my scope for a follow-up. Just my two centavos of experience.  | |||
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Ditto the above. A QD set-up is weaker than a solid mount, and just one more thing to go wrong. | |||
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I ordered the same set of rings today in the solid version...had a scope (Leupold) fail on me once while in Africa...not a great experience. Agree with about all the comments above. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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FWIW: I've had Leupold 1.5x5 scope, and Leupold QD mounts on my .416 Taylor since 1988. Conservative estimate of rounds fired in my rifle....500. I've used this rifle/scope/mounts setup in Africa fifteen times with NO problems. My thinking, if a scope/mounts fail, I still have iron sights. | |||
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Stuff happens. I was putting a new set of factory CZ rings on a M527. After starting a screw, I was using 2 fingers on the screwdriver getting the screw down. The second the least bit of pressure came on the screw, it sheared. There was literally zero tightness involved. Obviously a fault in the screw shaft. Really whizzed me off, but like I said, defects happen.... | |||
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I actually don't like the regular warne vertical split rings. They have two pair of fasteners that sort of have to balance-beam between gripping the rail and clamping on the scope tube. Change the torque on any single screw and the zero can be affected. If the scope slips and you tighten the top screws, then it looses some grip on the rail. Maybe I just didn't read the installation instructions in detail but they don't seem "simple" in use. Their QD rings have 3 set of screws. Two that clamp the two halves of the ring together at the bottom. I have these the tightest. Two at the top that grip the scope--I tighten these enough that the scope doesn't slip. And one for the QD part to grip the rail--this is finger tight with the lever. These rings have worked well for me. If you don't want the old ones I'll take them!  | |||
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i had warne quick detach that failed me on me 2 times. it was a ruger quick detach mount and rings. i sent them back 2 times, they sent 3 times new ones with extra spare parts. no more for the brand as the tech was not able to tell me what was going on .... i sold the rings at my lost explaining the issues i had with. close to lost a scope on a river boat in our lovely territory. that was enough for me. now im using LLC Alska QD rings for the rugers and Leupold QRW rings for the others. as others i do believe in open sights too ... the reason of quick detach rings. just my 2 cents | |||
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I have used a lot of Warne rings and have them on several rifles now. I use the QD as well as the Mountain tech rings. I have yet to have a problem with Warne rings or bases but I know what man made can fail. I prefer Talley, Warne and Leupold QD rings to any of the over priced, over complicated, soft steel screw, European systems. I have only experienced one scope failure during a hunt requiring me to use the back up irons (horse fell). But I do enjoy removing the scope at times to do some stalking with the irons. Use whatever gives you confidence, and safe shooting. LL | |||
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Right! There is no such thing as a "solid" type Warne ring. I have to assume that means the ones without the QD lever. As noted, the vertical split means that the clamping of the scope in the rings is linked with the attachment of the rings to the rifle. And the recoil stop on the bottom of the ring is also a separate part that is also clamped between those vertical-split ring halves. It must be made of cast metal that gets improperly heat treated occasionally, as even may happen to a CZ ring screw occasionally. I broke off a Warne recoil stop on .475 Linebaugh Ruger No.1 rifle, mounted on the quarter rib. The Leupold QRW is better because the horizontal split allows separate gripping functions of the rings, to rifle and to scope. Loosening one does not affect the other. The recoil stop on the bottom is similar to that of the Warne, for cross-slot bases, but more securely attached. I bought a Leupold Mark 4 rail for the "Standard Action" Wby MkV rifle, thinking I could make a Double-Seyfried-Schtick 2-piece base out of it for a "Magnum Action" Mark V. Wrong.  It fits the 5.75-pound MkV Ultralightweight 270 WIN,not the 8.75-pound MkV DGR .416 Wby. So I have converted one set of "fixed" mounts to the more versatile and stronger J-B-Welded Picatinny, Double-Seyfried-Schtick style:  I am still looking to swap out a set of Talley bases for the same sort of DSS 2-piece Picatinny, attached with 8x40 screws and J-B Weld:  That Double-Seyfried-Schtick Picatinny is a most versatile and strong system when combined with the Burris Xtreme Tactical rings:  Even a CZ can be adapted to this system.  I do not care for sissy scope rings and bases. Rip ... | |||
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If aesthetic sensibilities are offended by the big half-inch nut on the Burris Xtreme Tactical rings, there is the Burris XTR Signature ring:   This is as low as they go, in either 1" or 30mm rings, equivalent to the medium height of the Xtreme Tactical, uglier rings which are available at half the height (and price), XTR Signature "Medium 1-inch":      | |||
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Funny Eagle27 when I started reading this I was going to say I found one of my ring set locking screws on the floor of my safe once, it had just popped off in the safe & that was a Weaver ring set just like you said lol I use QRW Leupold rings, even on my .458Win, the levers are a bit sharp on these & I have put PRW on now also, seem like good rings. I most likely would not trust the Warne's after that if I was you as well ! | |||
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Ive used TAlleys for more than 40 years without a falilure of any kind, both on varmint, target and really big bore guns..Are you guys using a lead hammer on the levers?. Same with Leuplold QDs, a guy came into my shop with a broken lever, I ask him the same question, he said oh no, just finger tight, so I take off the scope and had to use a punch and a hammer to loosen the front lever?? Much of this stuff is the same, just don't ever know who is guilty or who is innocent on the internet!!   Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The Burris XTR Signature rings have the recoil stop cast integral to the ring bottom, and that stop is square on both sides, so the rings are reversible. Ring halves and clamps are aluminum alloy, surely of aircraft/titanium alloy quality. But there is the complication of the inserts if not needed to correct any misalignment. So I think I like the big-nutted Xtreme Tactical rings better. They have a steel cross bar as recoil stop on the bottom that acts as main mounting bolt, threaded on one end for the base nut, and they are available in Low height, heights being same as on the Leupold QRW rings. However that steel recoil stop is only fully square on one side, so the Xtreme Tactical rings are not reversible, they must be mounted only with nuts to the right side of rifle. XTac rings: The newer package insert no longer says to torque those half-inch base nuts to 65-100 inch pounds. It now says to torque them to 65 inch-pounds, period. Recommended torque for screws in ring tops is 20 inch-pounds. There are six, long, 8x40 screws in each ring top! Not 2 or 4 smaller 6x48 screws. Even if one of the Burris ringtop screws broke due to some QC defect, there are 5 more in each ring to take up the slack. Robust indeed!     | |||
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The XTac and XTR rings from Burris look bulky, but they are made of aluminum super-alloy, light weight for bulk, strong for bulk. And that brings me to a philosophical point: What grips an aluminum super-alloy scope tube ought to be the same sort of super-alloy, not steel. What acts as recoil stop against the steel base of the rifle ought to be steel. That is why I like the XTac rings best: Super-alloy gripping super-alloy and steel stopping steel. The inserts of the XTR ring are a needless complication if the scope base of the rifle is not akilter. Any 20-MOA tilt needed is easily built into the base, even with a Double-Seyfried-Schtick 2-piece Picatinny. For strength, all the pretty and not so pretty steel rings cannot compare with the Burris XTac rings on a steel Picatinny 2-piece or full rail, 8x40-screwed and J-B Welded to the rifle. With that setup, the only failure possible is inside the scope itself. Any kind of scope, red dot, or holographic sight can be mounted. The only question is how low can you go with the sight height. A pocket tool kit would include a half-inch socket and a T-15 Torx bit, or the T-15 Allen wrench that is packaged with the rings:  I like having backup iron sights too, but would usually remove the scope only if the scope failed, and replace it with a pre-sighted backup scope ASAP. That is what the pocket-socket-wrench is for. It is the Detachable QD lever, the DQD lever. Rip ... | |||
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The Warne that failed, the recoil stop tab broke off:  There it is:  I dislike vertically split rings. Period. | |||
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My gripe with Warnes was the lever system, they had that little weak spring that allowed you to postion the lever position after you tightened the levers on the gun... I was on Safari and I shot a clients buff with my .338 Mauser. It jammed on the now irritated buffalo and the PH stepped in and helped the client end the situation more or less. After the affair was over we noticed the levers had changed position on my rifle and wouldn't allow the bolt to lift..well we moved them back to proper position of straight up, and blamed the camp staff with messing with the gun...Later I closed on a great Kudu, made a good shot but the bolt again was blocked by the lever..We finished the hunt with electricians tape holding everything in place..It repeated itself some months later on a .270. Recoil was allowing the levers to jump out of place..I took off all my Warnes, sold them to Jack Belk, and replaced all with Talleys, and wrote Warne a letter suggesting a much stronger spring..Never a reply from Warne but who cares I had already purchased Talleys...I have talked to others who also experienced this. It seems to me such a easy fix, hope they did it...Im sure Jack did because I told him of the problem.. I tried to remount the scope on the off side but I would have had to cut the rear lever in at least half as long as the bolt release blocked the original lever..I just changed over to Talleys as they were nicer in every respect.. Actually my one set of Lynn Brownells that looks like a Talley to some extent, but much finer workmanship with slim checkered levers, a beautifull set of QD rings and very thin low bases that allow a good look at the rear sight on a rifle that most bases block...but they are impossible to find and fetch a bunch of cash if you do find a set, but Im always looking for a set at affordable price. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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That Warne fail pictured above was the only failure of a Warne ring that I have had, was with a set made to fit the Ruger bases. That might have been caused by the loosening of the QD lever but the levers were placed so that recoil would tend to tighten them (ends of levers pointed up if on the right side of rifle, pointed down if on left side of rifle, for inertial tightening with recoil). Levers placed on the side of rifle opposite from the bolt-handle side are less likely to interfere with operation of the bolt. I do that whenever possible. Likewise the recoil stop broke with one Talley failure I had, using a Talley ring made to fit the CZ integral base.   But I have also stripped out the threads on another Talley QD lever. That could happen to any make of Talley with QD lever, for whatever bases on the rifle.  So, you are danged if you do and danged if you don't tighten those QD levers tight enough on vertical split rings of various sorts. Bad heat-treat/QC or other metallurgical failure of the bugggered-up parts in all the above could be the culprit, of course. I have had Talley rings and bases made to fit the Dakota 76 and Winchester M70 Classic actions surviving so far, on a .423/.416 Rigby Improved Plus (aka 404 RIP) M76 African, and a .416 Dakota M70 Classic. Those bases were put on with 8x40 screws and J-B Weld. But why in the heck do the rifle builders nearly always drill and tap the actions for the tiny 6x48 screws to start with?  Even a Weatherby Mark V DGR in .416 Wby or 460 Wby comes from the Wby "Custom Shop" factory with the tiny base screws. I trust the horizontal split rings more. Warne bases 8x40-ed and J-B-Welded plus Leupold QRW rings have never failed me. The QD levers on QRW are same as with Warne, but at least they are segregated from scope-tube gripping function, they grip the rifle base only, as on an 8-pound .458 Lott chambered like Jack Lott did them:  Rip ... | |||
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Warne has finally made an interesting set of rings: For scope tube diameters: 1", 30mm, 34mm, 35mm Heights: Low (0.275"), Medium, High, Ultra-High  Warne Mountain Tech Picatinny-Style Rings Matte Features: Machined from 7075/T6 aluminum Mil-Spec hardcoat anodized finish Stainless steel hardware Fits picatinny and weaver style mounts and are NATO-STANAG compatible “Ounces are pounds, Pounds are pain” The credo of the backcountry hunter. When tired legs are the only mode of transportation and the air feels thin. When months of preparation, training and sleepless nights thinking about the upcoming hunt culminate into a single moment, placing the crosshair where it needs to be for the perfect shot. Warne Mountain Tech is the ultimate lightweight precision scope mounting system. Don’t leave your dream hunt to chance. When every ounce matters, and every shot counts, Warne Mountain Tech are the scope mounts you can depend on. * Weight in Specifications Tab is for a set of rings * Made In United States of America Specifications Product Information Finish Matte Black Material Aluminum Height Low Style Picatinny Weight 3.5 Ounce Tube Diameter 1" Height (Base to Bottom of Tube) 0.275 Inches Country of Origin United States of America https://www.midwayusa.com/prod...ny-style-rings-matte $112 Rip ... | |||
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This thread in itself is the main reason I have QD Talleys, Leupold, Brownells, on all my DG rifles along with sighted in iron sights, and just because a set of rings and bases are solid and not of the detachable varity does not mean they won't go South! THEY WILL AND THEY DO! I had a problem with Warnes on a 98 Mauser .338 and later a 375, in that with a low scope and bases the levers had to be installed with the lever on the bolt side..the weak spring that holds their postion let the lever jump out of lock and blocked the bolt uplift, it occurred at the worst of times, if fact twice until I taped them in place straight up..A heavier spring would probably fix the problem.. Installing them on the other side and cut the lever to clear the bolt release on a Mauser would be a good idea, along with the spring replacement..That may have been fixed by now, don't know as I prefer talleys or better yet Brownells if you can find them. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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