I finally got the chance to shoot my Chapuis 470 Nitro today. I went to the sand pit to get used to shooting it since I have a Buffalo hunt in July. I have a Ruger No.1 reworked by Bowen Arms in 470 NE and have shot it a few times. I touched off the first round and man did this thing belt me. I thought the recoil would be a bit lighter than my No.1 due to the weight difference. So I opened the action and out popped both empties. The gun fired both barrels with one trigger pull. So I loaded and shot each barrel individually for a couple of shots. Then I got brave and loaded both barrels again and it functioned properly for the next eight shots. Has any one had both barrels fire simultaneously like this? I plan to shoot again tomorrow. If it happens again I will have the gun looked at.

I bet that was exciting!....OUCH!!!!

Jim I think what might have happened to you is that the recoil of the first shot caused your trigger finger to hit the rear trigger, causing the "double". This has happened to me when I was hunting Turkeys with my 450 No2 [solids] and I was wearing slick camo gloves and took a shot [well two shots ]. The first time my brother shot the 450 No2 the same thing happened to him. You must remember to grip the double tightly with both hands. Shoot some more with a tight grip and you should not have any problems. I have had a 9.3 Chapuis for about 5 years and really like it.
Good luck on your hunt, give us some details.

[ 02-23-2003, 08:08: Message edited by: N E 450 No2 ]

Jim, I agree with 450 NE 2, I also had this happen to me when I was about 40 yards from a buffalo - luckily the first shot went true and put him down - the 2nd got him high in the body. It had never happened before or since and my PH was certain my finger had slipped off the front trigger and hit the rear. I'm also convinced that it what happened.

That idea was in the back of my mind. The length of pull to the front trigger is a bit long and just right to the rear trigger. 450 No.2, do you prefer the 9.3 X 74 over the 375 H&H in the Chapuis? I almost bought a 375 Chapuis at the SCI convention in Reno.

Jim, I went with the 9.3 because of the size and weight of the 9.3. I have a 450/400 and a 450 No2.
How many times have you shot your 375 H&H Chapuis?
There is a belief that the rimless doubles are not very reliable, which I think is all rumour as nobody sems to have any first hand experience. I asked if anybody had experience with a rimless double, and nobody had.
Please keep us posted. How do you like your Chapuis? A friend of mine would be best served with a 375 over say a 470. Shoot your rifle a bunch and let us know.

NE 450 No2 , I don't think the only problem, when useing a cartridge like the 375 H&H,is ejection. The cartridge is too high pressure for the design, and will eventually shoot the rifle loose! The 375 H&H Flanged Magnum is down loaded, some, for this reason, and is a better choice, anyway, because of the rimmed case.

JIM MILLER , I hope the rounds you are shooting in your Chapuis were not worked up in the Ruger No1.

The way to go is work up the load for the double, then adjust the scope for that load,in the N01. The Ruger No1 is a 60,000+ PSI action, and hot loads for this rifle will destroy your Double in short order! No double should be used with a cartridge that produces more than 40,000 PSI,MAX and 28,000, to 35,000 PSI would be even better. If you are shooting factory 470s, then there is no problem.

The combination of a double rifle, and a Ruger No1 chambered the same way, is something I've done for years. You always have the proper ammo for the rifle in hand, the only difference being soft, or solid. I let one the staff carry the empty No1, which is scoped. If a long, or complex shot is needed, all that is needed is to break the double, dump the rounds in my hand, and trade rifles. This gives me the instant option of soft or solid, as that is the way I carry my double, soft in the right barrel and a solid in the left.
This lets me slide a round into a buff through a 4" or 5" hole in the bush with the scoped No1. The loads however, are for the double!

Jim I misread you post. I now see now [said the blind man to the deaf mute] you said you "almost" bought a 375 Chapuis. I wish someone would get one and give it a real long term test. My buddy may end up being the test case, he just does not know it yet.
If he does get a 375 Chapuis I will load him the ammo at proper double rifle pressures. MacD37 is correct with his pressure info. Still I would like to see a test done with a 375 Chapuis and factory ammo. Most of the 375 Chapuis I have seen were regulated with Federal Trophy Bonded 300gr. I have seen a couple regulated with Federal 300 gr.sp.
Jim back to the 9.3 vs 375 choice. After I had my other doubles for a while I wanted a smaller calibre double for deer and pig hunting, one with lighter weight and less recoil that would be fun for my wife to shoot. A 375 Flanged Magnum would have been a good choice, except they are usually very expensive. So I started looking for a 400/350, 360 No2, 400/360 375 2 1/2" or even a 333 Jeffery Flanged. I wanted a British rifle.
[I was warned not to get a 375 H&H double because of extraction problems by a dealer that had 3 375's for sale!] Before I could find a British rifle my wife picked up a Chapuis 30-06 and said " I like this double, it is light weight, feels good". I already knew about the 9.3x74R from earlier research, checked into the Chapuis rifles and got the 9.3. I put the scope mounts on the rifle the day I bought it. I thought that it would be the perfect Leopard rifle [after about 5 yrs of use in the states I KNOW it will be perfect for Leopard and darn near everything else].
Since you already have a 470 Chapuis I would highly recommend a 9.3 Chapuis as your second rifle, with a scope of course. I have taken more game with the iron sights, in fact I have "forced myself" to use the scope the last 2 deer seasons, even when sneaking up on pigs and shooting them at about 14 and 17 yards. [Leupold 2.8x8 heavy duplex]. The 9.3 only weighs 7.5lbs with out scope and is a joy to carry.It is my favorite rifle under 40 cal.
Still I wish somebody would test the 375 H&H in a double.

MacD37 I have been shooting factory Federal ammo with Woodleigh softs. I

450 No2 I seriously considered the 375 Chapuis. Then I ran across a custom Mauser by Laubscher & Joubert in 500 Jeffery and could not pass it up. It should arrive tomorrow or Tuesday.

MacD37 The mounts are the "factory" Chapuis made by EAW I think. I did get the rifle from Herschel Chadick's in Terrell Texas. He usually has several Chapuis rifles in stock. I do not think they had ever put scope mounts on a Chapuis as they wanted to install the front ring backwards, thus removing the rear sight. The scope bases are easy to install, just remove 4 screws, the rib sectiions will lift out, then install the bases. The mount returns to zero when taken on-off.
I have since handled a 470 with a scope and it felt real good.
Your scope choice would be excellent. I just had a spare 2.5x8 Leupold handy.

[ 02-23-2003, 23:57: Message edited by: N E 450 No2 ]

Jim:

When shooting a double rifle that is new to you for the first time, whether new or used, always fire it as a single shot a few times from each barrel, loading the other barrel with a primed case just to see if it doubles. If it does, you usually have a trigger technique problem, although, rarely, it can be the gun. It is amazing how many newbies double discharge one on the first try. Most of us were taught to shoot with just the ball of the trigger finger, as opposed to the first joint, resting on the trigger. The result, when shooting a heavy double for the first time, is often a double discharge. A good friend who posts here, but will otherwise remain nameless, doubled his very first pair of shots with a double rifle shooting my old .450/.400 3 1/4" NE. Get a bit more finger on the trigger until you get used to it, and hold onto the rifle.

NE 450 No. 2:

I must have missed your query about rimless double reliability somehow. My old bear hunting partner had a Westley Richards 9.3 X 62 rimless boxlock. Reliability of extraction/ejection was never better than 75% with RWS brass and less than 50% with Norma, handloads or factory. A belted case might be a slight (VERY slight) improvement but I wouldn't bet double rifle money on it! If your friend wants a .375 double, tell him to get the .375 Flanged Magnum. If Chapuis doesn't offer that chambering (?) and won't build him one on special order, steer him toward the Kreighoff as they do offer it. A friend of mine has one of those with a 1.5 X 5 Leupold on it that shoots into 1.5 inches or less at 100. Of course, he would be better off with a pre-war British rifle.
------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

400 Nitro You may be right. I have showed him several British doubles, and he has shot mine....but he is a "scope" kind of guy. The Krieghoff might be a good choice, especially in 500/416, or 375 Flanged Magnum. I think if a fellow is only going to have one double [perish the thought ] it should be 40 cal or up. Still a 375 rifle is hard to beat.

Jim,

I also have a Bowen 470 #1, but I just recently got it completed and have not shot it yet. I probably will work my loads up to about 2300 FPS.
If that was a true "double" (both fired at the exact same time), that must have been an uplifting experience! That would be 1000 grains of bullet at 2100 FPS, out of a 470 weight rifle! Hopefully your stock survived without developing a crack.

Ken,
I have not shot my No.1 470 much. Just a handfull of Federal loads. The double fired so close togeather I didn't realize it until I broke open the action and both barrels ejected the empties. I saw no visible damage to the stock. It was defenately a suprise. I must have looked like Jim Scoutin on American Shooter shooting that 4 Bore of Lewis Drake's.

470 Fan, I bought a Chapuis 470 in August and am totally pleased with it. Have fired something over 100 rounds through it by now, including some at buffalo and elephant!

Prior to going to Africa, I shot several boxes of mixed handloads and factory ($$) loads. Never had a problem with the triggers.

The suggestion about a primed shell in the off chamber sounds pretty good. At least until you've convinced yourself as to what happened.

Good luck - I think it's a great gun.

I had a .470 double on me and lost the gun as it went striagt up and then flipped over and the rear sight hit me on the forehead and knocked me colder than a wedge..I woke up on the cement 5 feet behind the bench...that's a little different than your description.

I assume this is a two trigger gun. Sometimes with doubles, if the trigger pull is too light on the second trigger, it will double from the recoil. In shotguns and I assume rifles, the second trigger is usually heavier. Typically, the right trigger is the front one and is fired first. I would not discount the possiblilty of the gun having a problem.

I was checking out a beautiful 16 ga. drilling a few years ago and it doubled on three successive firing. I got my attention quickly--hate thinking what a 470 felt like.

The idea of using a primed case initially on the second barrel sounds good.