Scott,
if a solid lug is 100%, or 50% of the system, a full lug and a comprimised lugs (call that ont 80%) would be 90% as a set, assumming 50% of the system from each lug, there by 100%/2- 50% + 80%/2=40% results in 180%/2 OR 50%+40%= 90%


Most of the time, assuming you'ld be correct in your math, most people don't listen to that... as math is somewhat painful for most, especially me.. I barely made it through calculus (not for the calculus, btw)

Here's a good example.. i could get a mathsoftware and put together a big huge elegant formula... and confound everyone with it...

or I could just say "your budget is tight this month, after required bills, you only have enough money for either a dinner out with the wife OR a decent bottle of scotch, unless you allow for partial payments and/or latefeee, then you could change your options to 1: a decent bottle of scotch or 2: TWO decent bottles of scotch"

Antother great tip, at least for me, is to know and gauge your audience.... The simple matter is you can not convince the collective "us" that mausers CANT hold up to strong rounds, as we have fact accompli that they've held just about anything made.. and then some.

Further, if you really want to correct the situation, write the mag and TELL the editor how offbase and why the writer is. Believe me, editors KNOW writers can be wrong.... except when they bemoan the falling of the 358 winchester.. then they are always correct

jeffe

Just received the recent copy of AH, plus became a new owner of a CZ .458 Lott. I purchased this caliber rather than the Win Mag for those extra foot lbs and a buffalo hunt. Now I second guessing myself. The article in AH went on in great length regarding the strength of the Mauser actions with regard to cartridge pressure is making me think that to shoot a cartridge in this CZ is the beginning of it's demise. Can someone more familiar with the pressures, headspace, reloads, and all that this article went into, please explain to me that I did not just purchase a disposable rifle? Thanks for the help.

Maybe you should give this some thought?? Do you actually believe tht a manufacturer in todays environment would make a rifle chambered in a round that was unsafe? It ain't gonna happen!!
I have read the article you mentioned, and my take on it was that because of various factors-- bolt thrust, machining, ect. The author believes that the rifle will not last as long as a 7 x57 mauser(which he gives a life of about 5000 rounds). Do you see yourself shooting 5000 rounds of full power Lott ammo? If you load your own-- you will probably find that by shooting less than full power loads, the gun theroetically would last longer.
Also, I would TAKE ANYTHING WRITTEN IN AFRICAN HUNTER WITH A BIG GRAIN OF SALT!! Those folks have an agenda all their own!! They are very dogmatic in an opinion on what is proper for everyone and anything. I would not give the use of your new rifle a minutes worry! Personally, I would load the Lott to about 2200fps with a 500 grainer. Getting the energy equal to the 470-- which the 458WM was designed to do and did not-- and keeping some wear and tear off the lott. I doubt anything you ever shoot would be hurt more with an extra 100fps velocity!

Yeah, I read that article by Chris Bekker about pressure and the strength of actions. I'm not knowledgable enough in engineering, etc. to refute his statements but I wasn't much impressed by his article. One thing I did notice was that he kept using old pressure standards and quoting them in PSI. Before the piezo pressure guns, pressure was measured with copper crushers. The older writings frequently say PSI. But today PSI is used to commonly refer to the piezo readings and CUP is used for the copper crusher readings. It's simply a matter of convenience in order to readily distinguish between the two. So, in the article, Bekker would compare old pressure standards and new pressure standards and quote them both in PSI. Well, in the 30-06 for example, we know that 50,000 CUP is equal (approx) to 60,000 PSI in a pressure barrel. So basically he was comparing apples and oranges.

I think this was the same guy that "proved mathematically" that the 9.3x62 killed so much better than the .375 H&H simply because of the difference in barrel twist rates. I didn't buy that one either.

-Bob F.

Thanks Buckeye.

Thanks B!



You two have made me feel better about the whole thing. However, I have one other question: How well will the standard American style CZ stock hold up to a factory load? Is glass bedding and adding recoil lugs imperative?



Thanks to all in advance

.

"Furthermore even if you theorectically were shooting your Lott or your Weatherby out of a genuine old mauser action you would still have adequate safety margins by about 3 fold before you run into trouble with action lug shearing."< !--color-->



ALF,



That's what the flap is all about. Bekker "proves" in his article that the Mauser actions are not strong enough for some of the bigger cartridges. He quotes all kinds of figures and makes a lot of calculations. Back thrust, breech pressure, etc. Like I said, I'm not an engineer so I can't refute his article in an expert manner but the whole thing just didn't make sense. I think you would find the article interesting if you can get a copy of the magazine. I'd be very interested to hear your opinion about it as I know that you are very knowledgeable about Mausers.



-Bob F.

I also took exception to Mr. Bekker's statement that the 9.3x64 case was un-necessarily long, also the 375H&H. Heck, I used the same CZ action that was originally a 9.3x62. I think it is the perfect length for a standard length action. Woops, that was Don Heath's article in the same issue. Sorry

the 458 lott and winchester have EXACTLY the same saami pressures...

which is why a .350" longer case can have MORE velocity from the same weight bullet...

otherwise, it would be the SAME velocity from the SAME bullet at lower pressure.

jeffe

X psi on same size case base will have the same effect for
bolt thrust, even with longer cases...Article is a crock.
Now effects on stocks and bedding may be affected by
extra horsepower from longer case...Ed.

As far as a cZ550 handling a 458 Lott, I think you are just fine. The .600 Ok generates enormously higher stresses on a CZ550 and we have been carefully monitoring for both bolt lug and receiver locking recess setback. So far no evidence of any problem. I have gone so far as to remove the barrel from my gun and measured the receiver locking recess. No problems so far. I will point out that I have seen receiver locking recess setback in old military mausers that were chambered for 60KPSI plus magnum cartridges. Sometimes after only a few rounds. Personally I won't use a military mauser for any high pressure cartridge. Yes I know that the 585 Nyati was built on a M98, but that does not imply it was or is a good practice. Given that there are lots of very strong actions available now and some true Mauser designs made out of modern steels, I don't know why anyone would continue to hot rod a M98.-Rob

Pressure is pressure, whether it is from the 7mm Mauser or the Lott. Load it too hot and you get high pressures!

You are worrying about a non-issue. And CZ did not cross-bolt the new American stocks because they felt the stocks didn't need it. Even the horror stories which were predicted on the rumor mongering AR have not surfaced!

AH is not promoting anything that I know of, though they sneak a softball story in once in awhile about some outfitter.

Hey, everybody has an opinion, whether it is accurate or true or not.

How is it that mauser styled rifles are weaker than other types of bolt actions?

The lugs look pretty massive... Is it about case support?