I came across a Clayton Nelson 375 H&H built on BRNO Z647 action. Rifle is beautiful and asking price is around $4500.

I need some information on this BRNO action as I am not familiar with it. Are they considered good actions for custom projects? Bolt shroud and safety have been converted to a Model 70 type and scope bases appear integral or like a double-square bridge but not sure.

Also, I have heard of the riflemaker too but don't have much info on him either. Thanks.

Do a search, there's been alot of discussion of these scarce rifles on past threads, Alf is our resident expert, Tom Burgess (Systeme98) also knows alot, I own my share. You won't see many in the USA, only about 20K were made and they weren't imported here.

I looked at the Nelson rifle you are referring to at the Tulsa show, not worth $4.5K IMO.

I did a search twice but nothing pulled up. I will try again I guess. What do you think that rifle is worth and what about the riflesmith.

Prewar70,clayton nelson was a gunsmith in enid ok in 60s to 80s. worked for champlin-haskins& moonlighted on the side for years.he made a 22-259 for me inearly 70s which was superbly accurate-near 1/4 min@ 200yds. excellent workmanship on this gun, but not consistent on others ive seen, not amilliron fisher,burgess level & highly variable my gun was in 74 gun digest & killed 11 deer neck shots. sold gun about 10 yrs ago for 2100,dont think any of his guns are worth more than $3000 +/-. hope this helps. kim

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champlin has a CN sako 244 for 1900$ for quite some time so this is some reference.

Prewar, to summarize, about 20,000 ZGs were made from 1950-1962 at the Zbrojovka facility in Brno, overlapping somewhat with Brno 21/22s, although most were manufactured afterwards from 1956-1962. Most were sold in Europe, Canada, Australia and parts of Africa; they were not imported into the USA because of cold war trade restrictions. Some consider them to be the finest commercial 98 Mauser-type rifles, integral bridges, horizontal bolt safety, hinged straddle floorplate, fine open sights, beautiful classic European styling. Deficiencies include the high bolt stem making scope eyepiece clearance a problem sometimes, and the trigger which is not fully supported and difficult to adjust.

Prewar, regarding Clayton Nelson-made rifles, folks on these boards seem to think quality varies, it could be that he subcontracts or farms out some of his work. I don't remember all the particulars of the 375 ZG-47 you are looking at, but I do remember not being impressed (as much as I like ZGs & custom rifles) and thinking the rifle was certainly not worth $4.5K.

On the other hand, my Brevex 416 Rigby was made by Mr. Nelson when he was with Champlin & Haskins, and it was very finely made (bottom):

Collectors Firearms has a nice looking Brno Sporter with Mannlicher stock. It seems to be built on commercial Mauser action supplemented with 'Shuler-type' mount bases.
I like your ZG47 and matched Carl Zeiss Jena scope.

Alf, I appreciate the very detailed response. I will find that very helpful.

Fla3006, absolutely love your ZG47. Looks like a real pleasure to shoot. Appreciate the feedback on CN too. Have you ever seen one of these actions come up for sale? What would one expect to pay for an action that is factory original.

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Alf, that's quite a catch! I like that little Meopta scope.

Prewar, you won't see many actions for sale. Occasionally a rifle will come up, they usually run over a grand in the USA, less in Europe & Canada. FW Heym & Parker Hale used ZG47 actions to build a few hundred rifles, they can usually be bought for less. I saw a 30-06 Parker Hale Hussar at the April Tulsa show for $695, I bought this 243 Hussar with a scope at Cabela's for $575:

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quote:

ALF: They make very nice platforms for custom guns, that is if you can get it over your heart to destroy the original rifle to get the action

Ditto, unless one has been butchered or is a Heym or Hussar, best to leave it original. Not just because they are collector items but because there is little to improve.

Alf you say that the 601 came out later than the 600 and 602 do you know when?
My 601, number 00913, was produced in 1966.
Its in 222 and shoots very well. It's a tad heavy for a 222 sporter but I think of it as a light varmint rifle and use it around the farm for bunny bursting.

Oldun, my ZKK-601 223 Rem, 1985 vintage:

Another 600 series question.
Does any one know when Brno stopped fitting the pop up peep sights to the bridge?
Thanks.

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Alf,
With the pressure the SAP is creating via the media and lectures to the public, some pretty sad things are happening here. Many people were under the mistaken impression that the amnesty declared for the handing in of unlicensed weapons, applied to all firearms. They rolled up to the tune of more than 15000 guns handed in and the SAP steadfastly refused to set the record straight. Recently in PE, someone handed in a pair of Oberndorf double square bridge Mauser rifles. Beautiful condition. They were destroyed.

Thus far the amnesty has netted not a single unlicensed firearm in criminal hands, only legally owned guns. The only unlicensed guns handed in were inherited guns that were not yet relicensed by the new owner.

My .404 Rimless Nitro Express built on a 1958 Brno ZG 47 action.



Husky

Alf,
Thank you for your comments on the ZKK.
After the Russians took over the BRNO plant in 1968 following the Prague Spring, it was generaly thought, at least with the 22lr rifles, that they were not as well made.
The post 68 rifles were know in Britain as "Red Flag" rifles.
A local dealer has 2 ZG47 rifles; one a 1957 model has a 22 inch barrel tother a 1962 model has a 24 inch barrel. Most BRNO rifle I have seen have 24 inch barrels, were many ZG47s made with a 22 inch barrel?
Thank you.
Husky,
Now that is a very nice 404,
What is that funny spotted thing behind it?

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About 20% of the ZGs I've run across have the shorter approximate 22" barrels and maybe 20% or so have high polish actions as opposed to the more typical pickled or bead blast finish. Some have cheek pieces, some have grip caps, some have wrap around checkering, a few horn forend tips, others don't. These 3 rifles have 22" barrels, 2 have high polish receivers:

Ralph,
Some of the 22lr rifles I have seen post 1968 were fitted with bolts that were poorly finished so were some 22 Hornet ones.
My problem is that I have only my memory of these things and it could well be that as with other things in life, recall is not what it used to be.
Gosh, 1968 was almost 40 years ago,I had lots of dark curly hair then, now it's grey, with broad pink undertones and not quite as curly.
Ho Hum.
What is an as new ZG47 in 8x64 worth?

fla3006,
The rifle in the middle, with the side panels, is a beauty what calibre is it?

quote:

Originally posted by fla3006:
Prewar, you won't see many actions for sale. Occasionally a rifle will come up, they usually run over a grand in the USA, less in Europe & Canada. FW Heym & Parker Hale used ZG47 actions to build a few hundred rifles, they can usually be bought for less. I saw a 30-06 Parker Hale Hussar at the April Tulsa show for $695, I bought this 243 Hussar with a scope at Cabela's for $575:

Is that a peep sight on the bolt shroud?


Okie John

Oldun, it's a 270 with a custom stock.
Okiejohn, that's a safety lever, not a peep sight. It operates similar to a M70 safety to lock the bolt but is horizontal instead of verticle, sorta like a Sako Rhiimakii. When it is rotated up, the bolt is locked.

Alf...can I pop in a question ??
Some years ago I had a ZKK 602 in 375 H&H.
It had the Monte Carlo stock with dark wood forend and grip cap.
The thing is that it was from a party of rifles made for export to USA, and marked on the barrel with the importers name, Bauska Arms Montana, or something like that if I remember right.

They never made it to US shores I was told, because of the Iron Curtain embargo, and was sold in Norway.
If they were sold to other European countries I dont know.
Does it have any collector value, or is it one among ten thousands ??
I might be able to get hold of it again, and as far as I know, no alternations are made on the rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Oldun:

It is not quite true about product quality after he communist take over, what did happen was that the management side of arms production became problematic as it was centralized. They very soon found out it was unworkbale and then again devolved management to individual plants.

Hi Alf and Brno fans - FWIW has anyone got any idea why there is such a discrepancy between the finish and tolerances on the mechanical parts versus the stock checkering which in all examples I've seen from the mid-50s looks as tho it was cut with a brick!?? Charlie.

There's a Parker-Hale "Hussar" barreled action (270 Win) on Gun Broker. No reserve but a $750 starting price! Auction

A cobbled up Hussar at that. The unique ZG-47 bolt sleeve/safety has been replaced with Brno 21/22 type, hinged straddle bottom metal replaced with 09 Argentine. Original Hussar bottom metal is not the aluminum variety found on other Parker Hales as the seller states. Definitely overpriced.

Hello
seen on the post from ALF that there are several versions of ZG47

have just required my 1st hunting rifle, a ZG47 in cal 30-06, ser# 11481, date 57 w an old S&B 1,5-6x42 scope w fixed rail mounts. The stock seems a bit brighter in colour compared to photos of ZG47 on this and other broads -> other type of wood or just photo 'trickery'?





bigger version on
http://www.thefilehut.com/userfiles/wolf_skate/IMGP0435.JPG ->**38.JPG

I'm very new to riffel shooting and have just put in my first 30 shoots ever (only very little previous air and cal 0.22 experience before). Was open to any of 308 or 30-06 or 6,5x55 cal. as allrounder for North Europe and access to cheap factory ammo for lots of practise .. 'accident' was local gunsmidth had this ZG47 and convinced me, it being best deal for a beginners riffle

In the 6shot series @ 100m, needed for our riffel test in Denmark, I could put 4 shoots in 2x2cm + 2 more 'stray' shots (still need to learn a lot about aim control/definition and 'firing motorics'). So rifle/scope seems fine .. just me to learn more.. was using Norma Jaktmatch factory ammo .. don't know if I will be able to feel differene between ammo's at this point

is it possible to detect version of this ZG47 from above info/photos .. or where/how do I have to look to find out?

thanks

Patrick

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
THE GALAS RIFLE: ZG 47: by Alf

...

ZG 47 rifle configurations:

There is a paucity in the gun literature regarding the specifications on the Galas rifle and specifically regarding origins.

The following variations are noted from early factory parts catalogs on the ZG 47 rifle.

BARREL CONFIGURATIONS:

The basic barrel length on the ZG 47 was given as a 60 cm / 4 groove barrel in two weight configurations.

1. HEAVY BARREL: 7X57, 7X64, 8X57JS, 8X60, 8X64S, 30-06, 270WIN, 9.3X62

2. LIGHT BARREL: 7X57, 7X64, 8X57JS, 8X60, 30-06, 270WIN

STOCK TYPES:

1. Standard Stock: In 3 configuartions: “BASIC, RELIEVED and LIGHTâ€
2. Deluxe “Aâ€: also in “BASIC, RELIEVED and LIGHT†(No schnabel but with a rounded black tip and Monte Carlo cheekpiece)
3. Deluxe “Bâ€: Schnable fore end in “Basicâ€, “Relievedâ€, and “light†configuration.
4. Deluxe “Câ€: Slender stock
5. Mannlicher Stock: Optional
6. Super deluxe:

....