I am interested in buying a Ruger .458 Lott and having it re-chambered to .460 Wby. I like the idea of loading down the .460 to 2400 fps or so with a 500 gr bullet, as this would provide much lower pressures than the Lott and would have the advantage of a bottle-necked case. I know I would need to get someone to open up the boltface and work on the extractor, and work on the magazine so it would feed (and possibly so it could hold 3), but are there any other problems I am not thinking of? Is the magazine box in the .458 Lott a full 3.75" long (like for the Rigby), or is it only 3.6~? Is the Ruger stock strong enough/bedded well enough that some simple action work is all that this would take?

The RSM has only one recoil lug, and it falls off of the rifle if you take it out of the stock: the recoil plate in the forearm.

The CZ in .458 Win Mag is much easier, has two lugs, one actually integral to the action, and a secondary on the barrel that beds against a steel block in the stock forearm. Yes 2 (TWO) actual recoil surfaces actually attached integrally to the rifle, on the CZ, not just one little round bolster stud on the action to hook into a recoil plate that reaches up into the forearm, as on the Ruger.

The CZ .458 WinMag box is 3.8" long and will take three .460 Wby's down from the get-go. I don't know the box dimension of a Ruger .458 Lott.

Ed Hubel likes that set up for the heavy kickers, but I would rather have an integral lug on the action, and a barrel lug for a .460 Wby.

I never did understand why they would make such a beautiful quarter rib on the barrel and have no recoil lug except a little round bolster on the bottom the action to fit into a hole in the steel recoil plate that beds into the forearm.

Rube Goldberg contraption! Almost as bad as a Sako TRGS/M995. That is a real doozie!

Thanks for the input. My concern with the CZ is that it has a very light contour barrel and is very light (only 9.3 lbs. for a .458 according to the CZ-USA website). I would also have to re-stock it, and it just doesn't seem as ready to go, given that the Ruger already has a barrel-band, quarter rib, etc. This may be a really stupid question, but is there any way of "adding" a lug to the action?

Also, do barrel lugs interfere with accuracy? The reason I ask is that I bought a Winchester Model 70 in .358 STA (supposedly out of the custom shop) that had a nasty looking welded on barrel lug, and it wouldn't group better than 4 inches from the bench with anything (I never got around to trying to have it re-bedded, as I figured the the lug was the problem and I already spend enough on the worthless thing).

myoderru03

Barrel lugs certainly can cause problems the way Winchester do them. Apart from stuffing up the barrel, a lug that far down the barrel should have a screw in it.

Although I don't like the way Ruger go about it I think in principle that system is the best.

A better system (which could be done on a CZ) is what we use to have done with Wbys when had them a switch barrel rifles. About a 1/4" was machine from each side of the action recoil lug and a steel plate with a slot at one end was epoxied into the stock. The narrowed down recoil lug went through the slot in the steel plate.

The system Wby use on their rifles is also good, unless you want to be swapping barrels around. Their barrel lug is only about an inch down the barrel.

As to feeding etc there was some place, I can't remember their name, that was converting Rugers bolt actions up to 505 Gibbs. Perhaps a search on Google will turn them up.

The other thing you migh want to check is the barrel thread diameter. I think Ruger is only 1" in the Number 1 single shot, don't know about the bolt action. No problem if you are loading a 460 back to 458 Lott, but you never know, you might get tempted to go full power. Although without a muzzle brake I think any temptations would be short lived

By the way, have you considered buying the new CZ-USA in 450 Rigby which I think is $1750US. That might work out better and cheaper than kicking off with a Ruger in 458 Lott and converting to 460 Wby.

Mike

Mike375,

Thanks for the input. The place that used to do the conversions up to .505 Gibbs isn't taking orders anymore. Hadn't even thought about the issue of the barrel thread thickness. I just assumed with these other conversions it wasn't, but then again people convert No. 1's to .577, and I certainly wouldn't want to pull the trigger on one of those at Wby. pressures. Your thought on me being tempted to try full power loads is probably fairly accurate. It sounds like I am probably better off just spending more money to build a rifle from scratch out of a CZ if I want to go the .460 Wby. route.

I thought about the .450 Rigby, but I have a couple of concerns/questions about it, as much as I hate the belt on the .460 Wby. First, is there plenty of shoulder to adequately headspace? I know the .460 G&A has a bad reputation in this regard. Although the .460 G&A is based on the narrower .404J case (I think), the .416 Rigby tapers so much that I would be concerned that a .458 version of the case would have shoulder problems. Also, is there high quality brass (i.e. something other than Bertram) available for .450 Rigby? The plus I see to the .460 (and why I am going to it instead of one of the big boys like .505 Gibbs or .500 A-Aquare) is the availability of relativiely inexpensive Norma brass.

The Clymer reamers show that their .450 Rigby is blown out a bit at the shoulder. The .450 Dakota has a slightly smaller shoulder than the .450 Rigby, but the .450 Dakota is more than adequate. The .450 Dakota and .450 Rigby are essentially the same, but the .450 Dakota shoulder semi-angle is 26 degrees, while the .450 Rigby is 45 degrees, according to Clymer.

I like the .450 Dakota better, but there is not much difference between them.

Even my 45 Lapua, which has all the .416 Rigby body taper, has a very adequate shoulder, which even commercial ammo manufacturers could handle. The same cannot be said of the .460 G&A.

As to barrel weight, my .450 Dakota Mauser 98 Magnum (SigArms) has a barrel that is very light, about 0.65" at the muzzle excluding barrel band. The rifle weighs 9.5 pounds bare. It is sporty.

I have rechambered a .458 Win Mag CZ 550 to 45 Lapua, and it worked fine. Muzzle diameter there is about 0.67".

I have another .458 WinMag CZ 550 in American stock. I am thinking of turning it into a .460 Weatherby, to replace the BBK-02 that got turned into a .470 Mbogo. It is sad to be without at least one .460 Wby.

Rebarreling a .416 Rigby to .460 Weatherby might be better, if you want a heavier barrel. I did that with one of my 45 lapua's too.

Brass? I expect Dakota will be having no shortage, it may have been BeLL or Norma in the past, but may be Norma now, through the grapevine. And of course the Norma .460 Wby brass ain't ever going away.

RIP,

If you convert the CZ .458 to .460, are you going to have it re-stocked? It seems like there are a lot of problems with their stock's splitting from what I have read on this web-site. If you don't mind me asking, how much are you planning on putting into the gun total?

On a side note, I saw your BAM formula below and found it interesting. When I was in school, and had nothing better to do, I came up with a "killing power" formula that provides an estimated ideal weight for game animals for specific loads. If you convert the weight to pounds (divide grains by 7000), and then multiply the SQUARE of the momentum times the cross-sectional area, you get the result. From everything I have read, it seems to be fairly accurate on the relative differences between cartridges, and for lower calibers recommends a game weight. For example:

.270 Win., 130 gr., 3060 = 194.6 KP
.300 Wby., 180 gr., 3250 = 520.4 KP
.340 Wby., 250 gr., 2900 = 929.6 KP
.375 H&H, 300 gr., 2550 = 1350 KP
.416 Rigby, 400gr., 2400 = 2556 KP
.458 Lott, 500 gr, 2300 = 4447 KP
.460 Wby., 500 gr, 2600 = 5682 KP
.470 NE, 500 gr, 2150 = 4161.7 KP
.505 Gibbs, 525 gr, 2300 = 5960 KP
.500 NE, 570 gr, 2150 = 6261 KP
.500 A2, 600 gr, 24000 = 8644 KP
.577 NE, 750 gr, 2150 = 14262 KP
.577 T-Rex, 750 gr, 2460= 18,672 KP!

Kind of silly, but seems to reflect the differences in cartridges that I have read about.

myuderru03,
That is a pretty neat OGW and better than Ed Matunas's of yore.

I really don't get into that stuff anymore, however, now that there is BAM. BAM is about adequate momentum and small enough bore (yet still legal for anything) to be a good penetrator and a light and portable, handy size rifle that is controllable for quick followup shots, doesn't encourage flinching with excessive recoil, can be shot while squatting under bushes like Ray does, and yet reach out for long range hits, to put the bullet on the spot and drive it deep enough.

BAM assumes a suitably tough bullet.

BAM champs would be the .375's.
Practical BAM champ is the .375 Weatherby.

That is what is important for a hunting rifle.

As for the new CZ American stock: It would be fine for strength if a cross bolt is added fore and aft of the magazine box.

The CZ American stock is clubby feeling and shorter LOP compared to the old Lux, which I truly adore.

The CZ American stock woud be perfect for a .460 Weatherby if the extra crossbolts are added. A Pachmayr F990 Triple Magnum pad 1.5" thick would bring it back to my LOP and make it more gentle.

I would like the barrel weight on the converted/rechambered .458WinMag just fine.

The trigger and safety are fine functionally, but a bit complicated and maybe I would prefer something different there, but it will do fine for now.

All of my CZ barreled rifles with barrel lugs will shoot 3/4 to 1.5 MOA for 3-shot groups any day of the week. It has not been an impediment. CZ makes good barrels.

The little 9.2x62 CZ 550 Medium FS (full stock) put 3 sots into about 0.3" at 100 yards, with factory ammo in one lucky shoot. Must have been compensating errors. Right out of the box.