It looks like my .338-.378 has broken another scope. I'll check for loose screws, but it looks like it's just plain broken. The holes started walking up and left, and they weren't stopping.

I wonder if you all could recommend a medium-power (16X or greater maximum; I have crummy vision) scope that is recoil-proof.

It seems like I will never take that rifle big-game hunting, so primary uses for the rifle are target shooting and perhaps 'roid-rage prairie dogs (PD towns downstream of feedlots in Texas are getting runoff-watered grass with steroids and antibiotics. Charges by 70 lb. PDs are becoming more common (yes I am making this up!).).

I guess my ideal recoil-proof scope would be a 5-20 X 40mm scope with a horsehair (subtends 1/8 MOA?)reticle and maybe some mil-dot crosshatching (also subtends 1/8 MOA)and 1/8 MOA/click adjustment. I also want to be able to do this for the least amount of money. The proof is on the target, not on the rifle. I'll take any features on a scope that will work and keep on working.

Anybody have a recommendation?

I think you are looking for the impossible but let me make a suggestion or two.

(1) First consider going to a mounting system that uses larger holes in your receiver and then use 4 instead of 2 scope rings....will need a rail-type scope mount. This will hold your scope tight.

(2) Buy 2 used Leupold scopes in the power you want...why 2 Leupolds? .....their warranty! When one breaks you can put the other one on while the first one is in the shop and when the second goes you can replace it with the recently repaired one. This will go on for as long as you can take the recoil from the boomer.

I have a friend in E. Oregon who has a Weatherby in .338/378 with a Ziess Conquest. Well over 300 rounds and no worries. Redfield Srs.

SDS, What make and model scope has failed on your .338-378?? My .338-378 Weatherby Accumark wears a Leupold Vari X III 6.5-20X in Leupold mounts and so far, so good. It's had around 275 rounds thru it thus far. All my shooting with this rifle thus far has been with the Accubrake on, and I don't find recoil that bad. My Remington 700 BDL in .300 Win. Mag. (unbraked), has just about as much in the recoil dept. It wears a Bushnell 3-9X with the pop up post / crosshair reticle, and has had well over 600 rounds thru it with no ill effects. Come to think of it I've never had a scope failure from recoil. May be I've just been lucky. Bill T.

SDS,
Sightron, 4x-16x, mildot, AO, 40 mm. Warranty like Leupold. One of these stood up to the 510 JAB, then was moved over to a 30-378 WBY Mark V and is still ticking after taking a licking.

I used 4 rings to attach one of these to a picatinny rail. Of course you have to pull out all the stops in attaching the scope base to the rifle. Weld it on if necessary.

And use an adhesive such as silicone glue inside the rings. None of that "rosin" crap.

Etc.

I know what you are looking for, and I found it in the Sightron above, for about $300. I have also found another good scope in a Schmidt&Bender, for about $1500.

I would rather have five of the Sightrons than one of the S&B's.

From what I've heard Nightforce is what all the .50 Browning shooters use. They are supposed to be "bullet proof". Bill T.

Bill T., I guess I'm a weenie. I'm about 6'3" and 190 lbs. and the .338-.378 is a little heavy for caliber and has the Pachmayr large F990 recoil pad on the back , and looking in the mirror right now, I've got spidery-looking pink marks on my shoulder from about fifteen rounds with a good high position off a bench yesterday. No brake, and my handloads duplicate factory ballistics (?) with a 250 gr. Sierra at 3050fps or so. I fire slightly more powerful rifles, but the .338-.378 may have them beat for recoil velocity.

I didn't mention the scope brand and model at first because it wasn't central to the search for a replacement scope, and it's difficult for me to condemn a product that I am not nearly certain is deficient, but I imagine you might agree that a .338-.378 is not a good application for a Tasco 4-16 X 40. The first, old scope might have lasted 200 rounds, and the new one (slightly different model) might only have gone 80 rounds. I would be hesitant to generally condemn Tascos for all applications. I have heard that there are some old ones that are very nice. I was using a 10-year-old 36X Tasco yesterday, and it seems quite nice to me. Maybe not as nice as a 45X Leupold, but I might not be buying $900 (?) scopes anytime soon....

Jeff Cooper has written that at every rifle class he holds, they have at least a few scopes break. Occasionally (not lately?) he writes about his campaign to make scopes more reliable (glass mounted/etched reticle, adjustment in mounts?) on the back page of Guns and Ammo.

I have heard that Tasco has been bought by Bushnell, and that they are going away, or shifting production to a factory in China that makes junk, so perhaps heaping abuse on them is now not a bad thing.

The depth of expertise at AR is so great that I would never hesitate to ask for the impossible. SOMEBODY will know, or they will know to say no.

I appreciate all of the suggestions. I have not forgotten Daggaron's stories of whacking steel plate with the .510 JAB at 1000 yards by holding over with the mil-dots on the Sightron scope. What's really fun is waiting for the sound of the more-than-two-inch-long bullet going YOWWWWW as tumbles away....sort of like running your finger down a coarse steel guitar string.

The only truly destruct proof scope I know of the the Leupold 2.5X compact, you will not tear it up....It has its adjustments directly under the turrets and it just works, where the rest fail....

I think Ray is right on. I got a Leupold 2.5X fixed magnification "short" on my Ruger No 1 in 450 Rigby. It fit the No. 1 like it was designed for it, although it may be too short for a big bore bolt action. My scope has a heavy reticle and it has been taking the recoil pretty good. Have fun!

Spend the same money on one good scope, or on a car-load of cheep ones, which makes more sense?

Personaly I'd recogmend a Shepherd or a Leupold

I would go for a leupold or nikon,both have lifetime warranties.leupold's are recommended by magnum research,if they are tuff enough for a de,they should work great on a rifle.

SDS,
Of course the Leupold 2.5X M8 is a most rugged little scope for DGR's, but I don't think that it is much good for 1000 yard accuracy shooting with a .338-378.

The Nightforce scopes are great, but almost as expensive as the big Schmidt&Benders.

I am a Leupold freak when it comes to scopes, but the Sightron line is a rugged alternative offering the features you need, and they are priced right.

Just to set the record straight, I bang steel at 300 yards at the only formal range I have access to.

I punch paper at 945 yards in a cattle pasture using the 510 JAB/500 A2 and a Sightron scope set at 16X with a mildot reticle, shooting from a sit with a tall Harris bipod. The backstop here is a creek bank and the timbered bottoms where I killed a deer three weeks ago.

Starting the 750 grain A-Max off at 2150 fps, a 5 mil holdover puts it into the target at 945 yards, surveyed off with a laser rangefinder.

This is done with a sighting of 3" high at 100 yards.

A mildot table for intermediate ranges is generated using a ballistic program and the ballistic coefficient of the Hornady A-Max, about 1.005 IIRC, hard to top.

I have no interest in the 50 BMG anymore, since the 510 JAB/500 A2/50 Peacekeeper type rifle is half the weight and about 80% of the velocity of a 50 BMG, with half the powder burned. Efficiency with a capital E. It is supersonic past 1000 yards.

Recoil whimps need not apply, however, and the Sightron takes it in stride just fine.

The 2.5 x as others have said is the most recoil proof and is well priced to boot. But it's probably not that great for a long ranger like the 338.378. I read an article in an Aussie rag were they used a 3.5-10 leupold VX 111 and they said it went well.

Looks to me like the Leupold 3.5x10 Veri-X 3 is fast becoming thought of like a pair of black dress shoes; A basic necessity. I own 4 & am very pleased with them. Yes they cost a bit more but I look at a scope as a "lifetime" investment. I might trade guns from time to time but I have & will never let a Leupold get away.

[ 12-01-2002, 18:33: Message edited by: Bear Claw ]

I shoot .50BMG in competition, where you often shoot over 150 rds in one weekend. I've broken Leupolds including the 6.5X20's in as few as 3 shots. Boosted M4's hold up reasonably well though. We use Badger .50 Max rings and believe me they don't move. Nearly everyone has moved to NightForce 6.5X22 scopes or the older 6.5X32's. While pricey, Mine now has over 1000 rds through it and shows no signs of problems. At every match, some guy always shows up with a Tasco or Sightron etc. on their Grizzley or Maadi-Griffen ( that they all swear has at least 500 rds through it) and we take bets on how long till it breaks. they usually don't make it through the first string. In fact, two matches ago I had a guy on the bench next to me cross- firing on my target at 1000 yrds due to a busted Leupold 6.5X20.
The search for a cheap recoil proof scope always ends the same way for everybody. You buy an expensive recoil proof scope. For a long range gun like a .338-.378 buy a NightForce, for a DGR, either a Swarovski 1.25-4X or a Leupold M8 compact. At least, thats my 2 cents.-Rob

I've never had a Leupold on anything bigger than a 416 Remington. All this info is good to know.

Problems with scope don't really surface until one adds a muzzle brake, then all hell breaks loose and only the 2.5 Compact will survive as far as I can tell and your right it does't work real well on that caliber...

Leave off the brake and use any Leupold and you will probably be OK. Personally I'd prefer a fixed scope like the old 7.5 or 8X, 10X Leupold or Lyman Permacenter or even a straight 6X Leupold.....

Ray or someone can you please explain to me why muzzle breaks are hard on scopes. I would have though that having the break on reduces recoil and therefore prolongs scope life

So in my case my leupold 2.5x compact will last longer if I stop using the break on my .585 ??

PC
If I had to guess as to Ray's reasoning, I'd say it's because the scope is recoiling backwards while the bullet is in the barrel and than "jerked" forward by the action of the brake. The speed at which it gets hit by the change in direction causes things to come apart.
A similar thing has been known to happen with the little Rugar 1022, good scopes have failed due to the cycling frequency of the action.
I'm sure that Ray will correct me if I'm wrong.

It's nice to know that Sightrons have survived the pounding of something like the .338-.378. Now I'm pretty sure I won't have to worry about it on a .30-06.

[ 12-02-2002, 03:59: Message edited by: ksduckhunter ]

I know the Nightforce will hold up to the recoil, even the 50 BMG with the most effective brakes out there.

The negative recoil caused by a brake is the reason the scopes are said to come apart as said. I have a 3.5-10x40 VXIII on my Ruger 416wby with just regular Burris insert rings and it has held up for over 500 rounds now, the thing is tourqued down about as tight as I can get it too.

I have a 5.5-22x56 NXS that has made trips between the 50 BMG Grizzly, a 300wm and now a 300 RUM without fail too.

My brothers 5.5-22x56 NXS has made trips between his 50 Grizzly and his 338/378wby without a hitch, except for breaking a set of old style Leopold QRW rings while on the 50 BMG, it has Badger MAX 50 6 screw rings on it now. Those rings are sweet.

Sounds like the Sightron 4-16 is is handling things well for DoggaRon, and won't break the bank either. I've heard that they're tracking is very repeatable if you click back and forth for different zero ranges using drop charts too.

Do you ever shoot the 300 Sierra MK? 118gr H870 at 4.1" OAL in my brothers shoots about .2 to .5" in his 32" Pacnor barrel at 3000 fps over the Oehler 43. Blows holes through 3/8" steel plate at over 600 yards too. He has a Holland brake on it which works sweet, best I've seen so far. His "tiny" 18 year old girlfriend shot it 9 times out to 900 yards hitting within abut 6" every time too. She wouldn't shoot my 416 though, said it looked brutal.

Ya know, those dang 50 BMG guns for target shooting are so big and heavy and have such effective brakes that they don't kick much more that a 20 guage shotgun. They are BIG sound to the shooter and BIG fury on the target receiving the projectile, but they just don't kick much, and are really rather unsatisfyingly unportable. My 510 JAB is much more invigorating.

I suspect the big 50 BMG roughness on scopes comes only from their muzzle brakes.

I have not tried a Sightron on a 338-378, but I will put one on my special 378 WBY very soon, and use 300 grain Sierra GameKings for precision shooting and hunting.

I will let y'all know if I ever trash a Sightron.

I would laugh at a Tasco too, but not a Sightron.

I don't have a .338-.378 but I do have a .338 ultramag.( homebrew of course) with a Vias break. It wears my spare Leupold M4 boosted to 24X by premier in Max 50 Rings. It's lasted about 200 rds so far. I doubt you will find many of these beasts that don't use a muzzel break. Don't kid yourselves, anything but the best Leupolds or Nightforce will break eventually. See if I'm not right! Been there and done that many times. Nevertheless, hope springs eternal!-Rob

I'd hate have one to have one break, not sure if they can match the warranty of Leopold or NF which are just unbeatable.

I can say that quite a few people in the longrange crowd have been using them with some heavy hitters and really praising them, most usually use high power Leopolds, some boosted by Premere and alot use the NF 8-32 and 5.5-22 too.

Haven't heard of problems with them yet, so warranty service is up in the air. But for 300 bucks I may have to check one out. I wonder if they have a reticle like the NP-R2 of NFs? I like the rangefinding feature in it better than a mildot.

Gator

your dead right, i'll just replace/fix the scope if needed. I have not been game enough to fire it without the break yet any way

My Burris Signature 3x9 has lasted fine on my 338 A-Square ( a near clone of the 338-378) through several hundred rounds. I have shot a lot of 225 gr. X bullets at 3100 fps with this set-up. A Leupold Vari-x II 3x9 would not hold it's zero with the same rifle, although it shoots fine on lesser cartridges.

Before anyone beats me up for having an ASQ rifle--I bought it dirt cheap on a used rifle rack (with dies) to get a worked over enfield action that may turn into a 416 rigby or 470 Mbogo or 500 Asquare some day.

....ashley peep sight....

iv heard nothing but good stuff about buchnells elite 3200 and 4200 scopes i like lepould my self