I just got done reading Seyfried's comments that the 375 and 416 are great for most people, and the 450/458 are only 'slightly' more effective then those other calibers.

I've been kicking around this site, and Saeed rates the 458/375 based rifles as nearly twice as effective as the 375, and so does the Taylor KO factor. In fact, Saeed rates it about the same as the 505 Gibbs.

It reminds me all too much of the garbage written about the effectiveness of the 45 ACP or 45 Colt, compared to 9mm, or 44 Magnums, or, the biggest overrated cartridge on the planet, the 357
Mousegum.

I strongly suspect the 45, 500 grain bullets at 2400 fps to be all anyone needs for both a stopper, and with lighter bullets, a perfect plans game rifle. It's also much more affordable then the 416, and, the initial rifle is cheap, as well.

Finally, with express sites, and a light, 300 grain hollowpoint, unicore speer bullet, it makes an ideal home defense rifle.

In other words, the 450 is the perfect rifle caliber for all occassions...

s

[ 10-28-2002, 10:13: Message edited by: Socrates ]

Socrates-While there are no flies on the 450 Ackley, the recoil of a 500 gr bullet at 2400fps is gonna efect the shooting of most people alot more than a .416 Rigby for example. Most people will shoot a .416 Rigby much more accurately than a 450 Ackley and truth be told, I 'd rather have good shot placement than horesepower anyday. Now for people who can shoot the Ackley well, this is a moot point, and with a properly set-up gun this isn't a problem. However, I'll bet alot of the owners of these guns either become afraid of them or load them down. I will admit though that the effect on game is noticably more with a 450 Ackley than a .416 Rigby which in turn is more than with a .375, at least thats been my experience.-Rob

Rob:
One of our local guys took a 416 WBY with him to africa.
It had a muzzlebrake, mercury rods in the stock, and the biggest Kickeze pad they make. He said it was like shooting a 300 mag, or less. He could also drive tacks with it, since it recoiled so little, and the gun was just very accurate.

I'm looking for something like that on a 458 CZ 550.

As for downloading it, I suspect that somewhere between 2100-2400 fps, you get a huge pressure jump. Below that level, recoil isn't bad. Above it, you get such high pressure, the rifle recoils way worse then the extra velocity is worth.
Perhaps that's why the factory ammo offerings tend to be a bit on the slow side.
s

Weatherby style stock and KDF style brake (Wby Accubrake) in combination, add up to the most recoil reduction for most people.

Re: the brake

Is it really going to make that much difference with a low-speed cartridge like the Lott/Ackley "family"? I'm under the impression that they are much more effective with the big bottlenecked cartridges?

As a point of comparison, the Marlin ported Guide Gun still kicks like a mule. I doubt that port makes any difference at all.

Just curious. Anyone got a .458 Win Mag/Lott/Ackley with a removable brake? How big of a difference is there?

Pertinax

My 458 Lott built by John Ricks recoils as much as my 375HH with the chosen loads I use, or possibly a bit more. It weighs just over 9 pounds on the Model 70 action with a 22" heavy barrel and wonderful laminated walnut stock. My favorite load is the 450 grain barnes X bullet at 2350fps. With that load the reaction game shows to bullet impact is significant when compared to my 375HH or any 416 I have seen game hit with. It will also take game at any angle anytime where the 375HH and 416 I would be much more careful with.

Having to shoot game which is escaping or,.... which I have tracked after being previously shot I have noticed the difference many times. I have seen good sized animals shot with typical safari rifles like a 375, 358, 416, etc. Many will hunch up and take off running even when hit in the shoulders. With the 458 X bullets they fold nearly every time.

I guess this popular fellow Seyfried has a good reputation and knows his business. I'm not questioning his personal views or experience. Mine happens to be a bit different and I have shot an awfull lot of really big game and seen my clients shoot plenty as well.

I think the best all around rifle for a travelling hunter is the 375HH with premium bullets and a good scope. If that is not good enough then the next logical choice is a 458 diameter bullet. The 416 is a wonderful all around cartridge but not enough better for problems to justify it's use on everything, over the 375HH. And it's simply not in the same catagory as 458 diameter bullets are when it comes to pure crumple power.

I respect his opinion just as I do everyone who is willing to share them with me. I don't however agree with it completely.