Went to the gun show.

Two 375 H&H - as expected all tacticool stuff.

Lots on very cheap ar beings sold based on the Oregon college shooting. AR down to $499 - ruger, Smith &Wesson. Was told guys buying guns most likely will never shoot them or more worrying take it to wildlife management area in hunting season to shoot.

22 lr .10 cents - 9mm .20 cents.

The wood and steel bolt rifle crowd like me are becoming like black powder - irrelevant.

Mike

A lot of our kids have served in the military, the M4 / M9 is what they're used to. My oldest son bought an M4 (I went in for half just for Obama) and he bought an M&P 9mm. He does love my Springfield Pro (which he'll get in my will) and his 1980s BDL in 270. But I agree with you on the gun shows. A waste of time here in Colorado Springs unless you're looking for tactical stuff.

We are ready for the zombies though ...

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
A lot of our kids have served in the military, the M4 / M9 is what they're used to. My oldest son bought an M4 (I went in for half just for Obama) and he bought an M&P 9mm. He does love my Springfield Pro (which he'll get in my will) and his 1980s BDL in 270. But I agree with you on the gun shows. A waste of time here in Colorado Springs unless you're looking for tactical stuff.

We are ready for the zombies though ...

I have more than my fair share of ar, ak, fn-fal, hk91, vz58

My fear is a lot of people buying and owning them have no physical place or experience to shoot them.

There are tons of 338 lapuas - $2000 rifles with $200 scopes.

Also my favorite 50 cal - I know one range within 100 miles to shoot one.

Not sure being florida where all the estate sale guns end up.

Mike

quote:

I do not go anymore except to go with a clueless friend.

Larry, you brought Mike to the gun show? :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:

quote:

I do not go anymore except to go with a clueless friend.

Larry, you brought Mike to the gun show? :-)

Funny.

I wish there was a blaser there.

Mike

I decided to buy myself a Kimber 257 Roberts in the Montana model as I recall...This was about two weeks ago..plastic stock and stainless steel for Idaho winters...Well it felt like a log on that petite little rifle, and rubbed my face like tree bark...Then I saw this dark wood stock, and blue steel Kimber and asked what caliber it was and my man said ".308", it was lean and mean and felt so good and he said I'll let you have it at my price its been here a long time, everyone wants fiber and SS...

Got it for just a tad under $1000 out the door, it shoots 1/2" for 5 shots, with 150 gr. Horndays and 180 Nolsers, weighs 5 Lbs. ? ounces..wearing a 2x7x28 Leupold, recoil is a noticibly less than my 06 to my surprise...What a nice gun...It is quickly becoming my favorite go to gun...

Guess I'll never be a tac guy, and my wife sez I never had any tac in the first place????

I think wood has lost some appeal because what is on a factory gun is very plain.

The wood on a Wby Mark in 1960s/1970s was better then their Royal Ultramark.

Wood on an M70 in the 70s was better then what you currently get on a standard Mark V Deluxe.

A lot of shooters and especially younger shooters are under the impression that wood and accuracy don't go together. Well I have been into very accurate rifles all my life and that is not the case.

In fact if I had a proven barrelled action and bedded it into three stocks, that is, wood, fibreglass and one of the rubber type stocks and assuming a bigger calibres, say 270 Winchester and up the accuracy order would be in this order:

1) The wood stock
2) The rubber type stock
3) The fibreglass stock

I know because I have done it.

However, a plus the rubber type stock and fibreglass stock have is bedding is an easier deal and so if you have the slightest doubt on the bedding you do them again.

I have wood and I have fiberglass. The fiberglass is for practicality and the wood is for pleasure. I think most agree that esthetics become more important as we age. There's plenty of gritty realism in the world and entirely too little beauty and grace.

Maybe it just central Florida which has a lot of gun ownership with not a lot of hunting opportunity, culture (new transplants) and wildlife.

The guns shows don't represent hunting firearms - I think same true in other parts of the country.

I worry about investing too much in high end big bored and doubles - I think they may be more guns around than buyers in 20-25 years.

Funny thing I saw one guy with a few saur 202 rifles - I went over and all he wanted to talk about was a crappy 380 - total garbage $150 gun that he wanted my opinion on so he could close the deal with his buyer - a guy who looked like a carbon copy of flava flav.

Mike

We still shoot wood stocked rifles though we have a couple of synthetics (M70 Classic in 416 Rem, and Rem XCR II in 375 Weatherby). I used a Rem BDL in 270 for 30 years (before I gave it to one of my sons) hunted in wet snow in the Adirondacks and Montana, desert in Arizona, etc before I realized that the stock would warp (it never did). I love my CZ 550 in 500 Jeffery too. I bought the XCR II for an Alaskan brown bear hunt and it worked great though the shot was at 13 yards, In retrospect, I could've brought the 500 even though it rained every day.

My youngest with the BDL in 270 I bought in 68 a few years ago (he got his first elk with it too)



My 500 Jeffery on the same hog hunting trip. (he got the bigger one)

It's the age of narcissism for the under 30 crowd.
The phrase, "it's all about me..." ring a bell?


The use of porn is at an all time high and the logic is crazy. Guys and girls both can "pleasure themselves". Guys with out having to worry about pleasing the woman or getting her pregnant, women because a spare set of batteries can last all night, and no wet spot in the middle of the bed to sleep on.

The sexual fantasies now extend to every one who skipped the opportunity to serve their country in the military to fantasize being the new Rambo.

We are a dying breed.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
I spent 6 hrs at a gun show in Orlando. There were thousands of people and hundreds of dealers.

I saw one big bore - 375 H&H Ruger RSM. That is it.

Barely saw any hunting rifles or anything with wood on it.

Was all tactical and handguns and survivalist stuff.

Does anyone hunt anymore ? No optics other than the military stuff (and the very low end of that - chinese knock offs ).

Ammo was a joke - 3 boxes of 375 H&H and they were 30-40 years old.

I would not step in a florida public hunting area - the public hunting crowd would terrify me running around with ar and ak platform guns. I have a lot of AR and AK platform guns and hunt with a Larue 308 - but not anywhere around the florida gun show crowd. It just seemed that people were so distanced from hunting - they were just tactical gun crowd. Look at hunting season and hunting areas as a place to shoot guns.

Where are all these gun buyers shooting their guns - I am a member of one of the very few rifle range in central florida - don't see a lot of people there and florida does not have a lot of open public land to go shoot on.

If this is the gun buying crowd - big bores and other fine (anything with wood and no picataney rails) hunting rifles will be something we will only see at dsc and sci.

I did meet one very lonley guy selling fishing trips to columbia - did not seem a bad deal for $3K.

Mike

Besides drug dealers and paper, is there anything in Florida worth shooting at? :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Lou:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
I spent 6 hrs at a gun show in Orlando. There were thousands of people and hundreds of dealers.

I saw one big bore - 375 H&H Ruger RSM. That is it.

Barely saw any hunting rifles or anything with wood on it.

Was all tactical and handguns and survivalist stuff.

Does anyone hunt anymore ? No optics other than the military stuff (and the very low end of that - chinese knock offs ).

Ammo was a joke - 3 boxes of 375 H&H and they were 30-40 years old.

I would not step in a florida public hunting area - the public hunting crowd would terrify me running around with ar and ak platform guns. I have a lot of AR and AK platform guns and hunt with a Larue 308 - but not anywhere around the florida gun show crowd. It just seemed that people were so distanced from hunting - they were just tactical gun crowd. Look at hunting season and hunting areas as a place to shoot guns.

Where are all these gun buyers shooting their guns - I am a member of one of the very few rifle range in central florida - don't see a lot of people there and florida does not have a lot of open public land to go shoot on.

If this is the gun buying crowd - big bores and other fine (anything with wood and no picataney rails) hunting rifles will be something we will only see at dsc and sci.

I did meet one very lonley guy selling fishing trips to columbia - did not seem a bad deal for $3K.

Mike

Besides drug dealers and paper, is there anything in Florida worth shooting at? :-)

I would say depends on ones balance sheet. Larry Shores club 2 hrs from Orlando is as good as any high end places I have hunted including Pawling Mountain and Mesa Ranch (Boone Picken's place).

Public land - not much. Too many people, little public hunting land, too many rednecks and too many tacticool rifles make for a bad set up.

My neighbor who has a bear tag asked if I wanted to held him set up in a public WMA. I said no thanks no intention of going out in the public woods in hunting season.

Mike

I'm I agree that at the midwestern and southern gun shows that I have gone to over the years have changed to a degree - there is more "tactical" stuff than before, but not to where there aren't any hunting rifles. But this is just what I see in Missouri and Kansas; maybe there is not a market here for the really nice big bore rifles. Personally I only check up on three vendors: one fellow with a large supply of the old standard paper targets, a reliable dealer of surplus mil rifle ammo, and the vendor with reloading powder (not best prices but still cheaper than paying shipping + haz mat).

Has anyone been to Wanenmacher's gun show in Tulsa lately? Is the tacticool trend evident there too? Or can you still find really nice wood and steel there?

Several salient points brought together in this thread-
some rambling thoughts from an aging collector-

.22lr availability-

.22LR has achieved somewhat of a currency status though production has increase marginally - the producers are still running at maximum capacity
est- 4.5 billion rds per year - roughly 25000 bricks/day--(Rimfire production is more difficult to increase than centerfire for a number of reasons)

WalMart is the largest purveyor of .22lr in the US.
IF only WalMart SuperCenters and no other vendors got ALL the production it would be only 7 to 8 bricks per store per day , 50 to 60 per week.

Wood for stocks-

As noticed , the quality of wood stocks has greatly diminished-even on "upper" model Kimber's, Weatherby's etc-
Fact is the quality of suitable hardwoods is at a critical low due to de-forrestation -

Only on the most expensive guns is it economically feasible to use wood of any quality- more so than at any time in history-

Rise of "Tactical" guns-
There was a rise in production after Viet Nam but not nearly to the point that the
prolonged Middle East military operations have brought-
For over a decade many young Americans have rotated through the military-
Many of the former soldiers have returned to ply there craft in the firearms industry- resulting in many new Brands and variants of weapons and military type training-
The contribution by "Tactical" video games to this market is not without note either-

Additionally, the current Presidency has stimulated production, as have the unfortunate mass shootings and riots-
The market is however beyond the saturation point and is not quite to the bottom of the"correction" the "no name" AR prices will continue to fall in the immediate future-

Generational Collecting Change-
Many of the "queens" of the boomers are indeed falling on hard times as a whole-

More than ever the originality of form and condition are important-
exceptional Model 70 and Model 12 pre-64's still command good prices-
The merely good guns and average ones have plummeted, as have SxS's of other that exceptional quality or rarity-

This change is also being felt in China dishware, furniture rugs , etc-
Many of even the wealthier members of the generations behind the "Boomers" simply are spending what "discretional" monies they have on other choices-
real estate, travel, etc

It is an ever changing world and the economics of collecting are very much effected by those changes-

My own sons , though hunters, are not as interested in collecting as myself or there mother- while appreciating he things we amassed , they like many of their generation see "things" more and more as a responsibility or burden in some way-

Gun Shows-
Have deteriorated in quality as they have increase in quantity-

30 years ago there were less than 1/10th the number of shows as today-
For example within the DFW metroplex there are 48 of 52 weekends with one or more shows

In addition to volume the quality has suffered as well due to the relaxation of the "display" rules- allowing much non-gun related materials-
and yes, to some degree as mentioned above -the rise of a continual presence of gun dealers .

With this rise, and other factors,the number of true collector displays has diminished

Many new shows were stated in an effort to garner business- some shows stared by the dealers themselves-
Due to these and other factors the quality of the shows is at an all time low (with exception a few bright spots)


Rise of Internet Gun Sales

This has affected collecting, brick and mortar sales, gun shows , etc-
To some degree leveling the playing field and at the same time confusing the consumer--

jm2c