quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Sambarman,
Ruger furnishes a weight to compensate for that, but Ive tossed them as they were not needed on my guns...

Im hearing a lot of lame excuses on here what not to like about the brake, when the only legitimate excuse is you just don't like the damn thing..

The brake has gotten awful popular among the shut in in Alaska and Canada these days..and I understand the dislike as I was anti brake for a number of years, but bursitis was the result of big bore recoil, and to some extent my eyesight Im told....Today the brake is much appreciated on the bench while filing in a set of iron sights, sighting in a scoped rifle, and working up loads...As to the thread protector coming off, that is an overworked imagination or a weak hand, if it comes loose put it on tighter, same for the brake itself, both screw on the same thread!! use a dab of locktite or nail polish..

POI does not change with any of my braked rifles if it did I wouldn't keep it..

NOise of a brake??? shooting an unbraked gun has the same problem, don't ever believe otherwise.

But all this is just good conversation, and it boils down to choice, some like them and others do not. Ive made my case you make yours!

Thanks for that answer, way back then, Ray. Obviously I don't go back over my posts for answers as often as I should.

Anyway, it's great to hear you can still use these things. Last time I fired a .458 from a rest I thought for a moment I'd detached a retina.

But really, instead of dropping your wisdom in snippets here, it's time you started hammering out a book for posterity. As said, I'd be happy to fix spelling mistakes and grammatical errors, while trying not to ruin your style.

And I would be happy to put the whole thing together as an e-book!

Regards

I don't know about the shifting impact issue as I haven't tested it. But, as far as the brake, or the thread protector, coming off, it appears to me that the opposite happens. The direction of the threads, and twist direction of the bore, seem to work to tighten things further. If I don't tighten them up too much, by the time I've fired 10 or 15 rounds, they are very tight. And I do put a little light grease on the threads to make sure I can get it off later, just as I learned to do with the threads on screw-in shotgun chokes.

And an interesting observation about the noise level... As with ranges everywhere, the one near my home is generally populated by shooters with AR-style rifles. By far, most are chambered for 223/5.56 NATO. They usually have barrels around 16" to 18" long. Almost all have muzzle breaks. They are the most obnoxious, unpleasant rifles to be around I've ever experienced since I began shooting at ranges about fifty years ago. When I first acquired my 375 Ruger with a 20" barrel, I thought maybe these guys would get a taste of their own medicine. Yeah, I said they really annoy me. Of course there's 80-ish grains of powder, or a little more, that is vaporized for every shot. To my surprise, and admittedly slight disappointment, it didn't phase anyone. My son, who was a range officer at the time, told me that it was not as unpleasant as the AR guns. There is something about that cartridge, the barrel length, and the brakes that are used that makes them special in a bad way. That said, I don't want to be next to any high-powered rifle when fired without hearing protection, if I can possibly avoid it.

quote:

Originally posted by Esskay:

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Sambarman,
Ruger furnishes a weight to compensate for that, but Ive tossed them as they were not needed on my guns...

Im hearing a lot of lame excuses on here what not to like about the brake, when the only legitimate excuse is you just don't like the damn thing..

The brake has gotten awful popular among the shut in in Alaska and Canada these days..and I understand the dislike as I was anti brake for a number of years, but bursitis was the result of big bore recoil, and to some extent my eyesight Im told....Today the brake is much appreciated on the bench while filing in a set of iron sights, sighting in a scoped rifle, and working up loads...As to the thread protector coming off, that is an overworked imagination or a weak hand, if it comes loose put it on tighter, same for the brake itself, both screw on the same thread!! use a dab of locktite or nail polish..

POI does not change with any of my braked rifles if it did I wouldn't keep it..

NOise of a brake??? shooting an unbraked gun has the same problem, don't ever believe otherwise.

But all this is just good conversation, and it boils down to choice, some like them and others do not. Ive made my case you make yours!

Thanks for that answer, way back then, Ray. Obviously I don't go back over my posts for answers as often as I should.

Anyway, it's great to hear you can still use these things. Last time I fired a .458 from a rest I thought for a moment I'd detached a retina.

But really, instead of dropping your wisdom in snippets here, it's time you started hammering out a book for posterity. As said, I'd be happy to fix spelling mistakes and grammatical errors, while trying not to ruin your style.

And I would be happy to put the whole thing together as an e-book!

Regards

That's a good idea, Esskay. Maybe Ray could start in serial form, as Dickens and (I think) Mark Twain did, and it could be published in AR. At a suitable time it could be tightened up further and put out as an entity.

The serial aspect would keep Ray in touch with us as he wrote it, and we might add our support in an attached forum.

OK, Esskay, so it's been decided.

Now, it's down to you. Ray. You've outlasted Elmer Keith in both regards, so get the last word.

This is more important even than wrecking your old M71's collector value.

I have a 70 percent hearing loss in both ears, thats from forced qualification on the pistol range during my Law Enforcement career, They furnished up hearing protection in the form of sticking a loaded 38 specials in each ear!!! Today I have a set of quality muffs, and the option of foam plugs..Along with that and age I have severe bursitas in both shoulders from shooting big bores, and a crippled hand from a steer roping incident, All this is a minor problem and I intend to keep shooting and hunting until the shit hits the fan. I like and feel like I need a muzzle brake at the bench and when varmint hunting, and the hand is the worst part of recoil for me. With this tool I can still shoot any caliber out there, but pay the piper, otherwise Im good to the 30-06 without assistance...

I am pro brake as many of you that shoot more than once a year will come to find out, like it or not..Id love to hear what the naysayers have to say at 80 years on, if they are even still around.

I suspect the average age of AR members is fairly high, and while not senior to you Ray, my guess is they can somewhat identify with the things you have mentioned above, if not so severely quite yet.

I admire your refusal to quit shooting/hunting in spite of Father Time's 'gifts'. You're a great role model for some of us here on AR. Thanks for that.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I have a 70 percent hearing loss in both ears, thats from forced qualification on the pistol range during my Law Enforcement career, They furnished up hearing protection in the form of sticking a loaded 38 specials in each ear!!! Today I have a set of quality muffs, and the option of foam plugs..Along with that and age I have severe bursitas in both shoulders from shooting big bores, and a crippled hand from a steer roping incident, All this is a minor problem and I intend to keep shooting and hunting until the shit hits the fan. I like and feel like I need a muzzle brake at the bench and when varmint hunting, and the hand is the worst part of recoil for me. With this tool I can still shoot any caliber out there, but pay the piper, otherwise Im good to the 30-06 without assistance...

I am pro brake as many of you that shoot more than once a year will come to find out, like it or not..Id love to hear what the naysayers have to say at 80 years on, if they are even still around.

I hope to not be around, but glad you are.

In Walter forum, please tell us about your law enforcement days.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I have a 70 percent hearing loss in both ears,

I am pro brake

Ray, I suppose if I had that severe of hearing loss I might also like brakes but my profession, like all guides and PH's, requires me to be able to hear and loosing a portion of it because someone carelessly fires a rifle with a muzzle brake close to my head , or even nearby, is not something guides Look forward to.
I already have a 20% loss in my right ear due to a magazine editor who decided to shoot a bear with the muzzle of his .405 next to my ear while I was trying to judge it with my binoculars.

Phil,

That is awful that the miscreant got your good ear.
The left was the one that was supposed to be bad from your righthanded blasting with rifle and shotgun,
not to mention military service noise exposure.
Do you have a matched set of ears now ?

I went off muzzle brakes about 55 years ago when my farmer father bought a Mossberg bolt-action shotgun (I wanted a pump-action but I bet Dad thought that would cost him too much in ammo). My ears would ring every time I fired that damned thing, at a time when hearing protection was too sexy for country folk.

Another problem with brakes is range officers put you down the line with other people using them, too, so you not only have to put up with your own but the whump from the guy next door coming right at you. I know because one day I had to go there even though I didn't have a brake.

I'm not above putting a pussy-pad behind the butt, though

It would seem that this thread died about two months ago, but I think more could be added from slightly different perspectives.

While I'm a year behind Ray in age, I have to agree with him on the matter of recoil when (and if) you are still shooting big-bore rifles at 80+ years. I've not fired the 12 ga from hell, nor a 460 Weatherby, but I did shoot, both at a range and in hunting, for twenty plus years my favorite rifle -- a Ruger #1 in .45-70 LT. That "LT" standing for "Long Throat". The ballistics were easily equal to hot loads in a 22" .458 Win Mag (2210 fps for the 500gr Hornady and 2317 fps for the 450gr A-Frame). The whole rig with scope and one cartridge weighed just over 8 lbs. Did I mention it was my favorite rifle? Yes, I think I did.

I fired that rifle a lot until it got traded for a Ruger #1 in .458 Win Mag two years ago. Why? Did I want greater ballistics? Noway! I wanted the same basic ballistics in a 2 lb heavier rifle with Mag-na-porting, from which I've attained from its 24" barrel 100 fps more velocity from the 500gr Hornady (as only one example). All maximum loads (from 300gr TSX's to 500s) have come very close to 6000 ft-lbs, and a few surpassing that. But the recoil has never attained from the .458's hottest loads what I was experiencing from the #1 in .45-70 LT! Now, from the Ruger #1 in .458 I'm shooting loads that simulates what I was getting from my 1895 Marlin in .45-70 - and there are lots of available bullets for that. From a 10.65 lb rifle with Mag-na-ports, the 405gr Remington at 2083 fps is producing a mere 30 ft-lbs of recoil, whereas from my 1895 Marlin the recoil was 42 ft-lbs! And the Marlin has a terribly shaped stock for managing heavy recoil!

The 500gr load from the #1 Ruger in .45-70 LT was up to 75 ft-lbs. Right now my fall load for bear was the 405 gr Rem at the mentioned 2083 fps from the #1 Ruger Tropical in .458 Win Mag.

The reason I traded one #1 in .458-caliber for another #1 in .458-caliber was to maintain the same (nearly so) ballistics at a much reduced felt recoil level -- something like up to 50% less depending on the load.

The noise factor? I've shot the #1 in .458 a lot at the range over the past two years, and in wooded areas, and have not noticed any increase in muzzle blast.

But in shooting a black bear with my first .458 Win, a Ruger 77 with a 22" barrel, my right ear was permanently damaged from the muzzle blast! I shoot from the left side. And it was a medium load of the 350gr Speer over 73 grains A2015BR @ 2345 fps. The muzzle blast from that load was more severe than from my current 24" #1 Ruger with Mag-na-ports.

The sole point of all this is to emphasize that there are MANY factors that influence both perceived recoil AND muzzle blast!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

I have an AR10 in 308. With the brake on it I have to wear ear plugs and earmuffs. Without the brake earmuffs (or plugs) is fine. BTW it has a 20 inch barrel.

Now for testing whether a brake effects POI I don't know haven't tested it, but I'm sure you all know about barrel harmonics and how tuners can find that sweet spot. As we know a tuner is basically an adjustable weight at the end of the barrel adjusting the weight by moving it forward or aft. With that said I'm shrunk groups down dramatically with a tuner. I would think that a brake being heavy would have to have an effect on the group size. I've talked to friends that have suppressors and they said sometimes they improve the groups and sometimes they down. Now those are a huge weight on the end of the barrel.

My ruger 77 tang safety rifles and my stainless ruger 77 mark II in 338 win mag are all super accurate with the right bullet .They have the old style throat in them and they are picky on bullets .I can shoot a clover leaf with the right bullets with them at 100 yards and under an inch with them at 200 yards . The paddle stock one shot like crap .It kicked like a mule and popped your jaw bad .I put a boyds laminated stock on it and I swear it cut the recoil in half .
I have a break on all of my 338-378
Weatherby accumark rifles .I can't shoot them without a brake on them.It has almost no recoil with 200 grain bullets and I said one day I will just try it without the brake
it about knocked my head off even with
The 200 grain bullets .I wear ear muffs and ear plugs when target shooting .I wear just plugs when hunting .I had the old boss system on my win model 70 338 win mag that had the cheap plastic stock that was too narrow . It weighted like 6.5 pounds without a scope and the stock was too narrow .That gun was terrible to shoot as bad as the paddle stock ruger without the brake . It was like a 270 with the brake .I have a Winchester model 94 in 444 with a straight wood stock Its terrrible to shoot 6 pounds even empty .I shot it 5 times and will end up selling it .
The way a stock is determimes how hard a gun will kick . Those ruger paddle stocks which have the magical black gold collector value for a $12 plastic stock kick the worse .I bought a savage with a muzzle brake on it never shot it .
That thing was 6.5 pounds I didn't even want to try ! I find myself shooting my 260 rem these days more and more !

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:

quote:

Originally posted by Heym SR20:
Are they doing a left hand version??

Ruger makes left handed rifles, and in 375 Ruger caliber, they make it in the African and the Guide Gun, but I don't believe they make it in the Alaskan.

p.s. I've been to Scotland once in my life for the 4th ITF Taekwon-Do World Championships in Glascow. Beautiful country. Hope to return again some day to see more of your amazing country.

they did some batches of left handed alaskan with laminated stock and 20 or 23 inches with open sights so yes they existed.

I have little hearing left in my left ear that is the one toward the muzzle as I shoot. Huh? I find a muzzlebreak hurts my ears a lot! I have to shoot with ear protection or not shoot at all. I'm looking into suppressors for that reason. I would still use ear protection shooting WITH a suppressor. Be Well, Packy.

Hello,
Phil, I can relate closely to your post but everyone please don't misread my posts as it seems some have..I have clearly stated I do not hunt with the brake attached, end of story well almost, If Im alone and have ear protection and sometimes even without if the situation is a escaping 40 inch muley or 50 inch buffalo, or 10 ft bear, even a 40 lb rabbit then to hell with my allready shot hearing I will pull the trigger..

I do feel a guide or PH has to show some guidence on this issue and he may need to be prepared to have hearing protection at least in his pockets and an understanding with his client. saves a lot of grief..but I would not shoot a 22 in most instance that I hear about, Its my duty not to damage a friends hearing, so basically I try not to do that..but I have seen some PH jump out in front of the shooter and create their bitch!! jUST PLAIN OLD COMMON SINCE HAS TO HAVE ITS PLACE IN THESE KIND OF CONVERSATIONS..

BTW. early on I stated I would once again test my new Ruger 375 with and without brake on it...well I did and it shoots most loads to the same POI, the only problem is it doesn't have a brake!

Ruger made about 300 375 Alaskans in left hand, all stainless with 20” barrels, good irons and most had a barrel mounted sling swivel base. They had a laminated black/gray stock. These were built in 2008-10 I sold about 135 of them myself.
These did not have brakes and weren’t loud with muffs on the bench. I still have one. I had it ceracoated to smooth the action and it is very slick. I have shot several head of game with no hearing protection with no problem. Recoil is just a heavy shove.

I have never been a fan of brakes and don’t have them on any of my rifles; however...

After spending a couple days in the company of two fellows shooting .223’s with suppressors on them, I’m seriously thinking about adding a suppressor onto a rifle. As I understand it, they reduce recoil somewhat, but the reduction in noise alone sold me on the concept. They shot close to 1,000 rounds near me and I could have easily spent the entire time without hearing protection if everyone had suppressors on their AR’s. They made a huge difference.

I wish somebody would start building an affordable .416 Rigby on a Mauser type action again.

quote:

Originally posted by Tpr.1919:
I wish somebody would start building an affordable .416 Rigby on a Mauser type action again.

By a 416 Ruger MKII and have the best.

I like the nostalgia of the .416 Rigby and the recoil from the rifles I have had in that caliber were no unpleasant to shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by Tpr.1919:
I like the nostalgia of the .416 Rigby and the recoil from the rifles I have had in that caliber were no unpleasant to shoot.

As would any 416 caliber cartridge from the same model of rifle shooting the same bullet at the same velocity.


Nostalgia can be expensive.

My favorite rifle that I will one day inherit is rifles inc 7mm STW. What a mouse at the bench, with recoil less than a 30.06.

It is also horribly obnoxious in terms of how loud it is.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Ray,

I don't like brakes because I don't like the noise. I'm already half deaf.

I got a suppressor for mine. I don't like the noise or the recoil...