I finally got to the range today. The wind was awful, gusty from any direction 5-30 mph, but I had to go.

I worked up a load of IMR4895 for the GS Custom 380 grain Flat Nose in my 416 Rem Mag. I chose IMR4895 because I have 16 pounds of surplus powder from the same lot. I suspect RL-15, N550 or H414 would all yield higher velocities.

Note that the vertical spread on the groups was generally 1/2 the total reported. The wind was bad!

charge vel sd Group
70 2284 5 0.816
72 2349 2 0.784
74 2404 6 1.303
76 2454 7 0.368
78 2515 12 1.067
80 2543 5 0.954 flat primers
82 2606 2 0.964 slight ejector marks

I think I'll settle for a safe and sane 2450 fps at 76 grains of IMR4895. The group sizes are good above that, but they are rapidly moving north on the page. The 76 grain group has the lowest center position of all groups shot.

These bullets are a joy to load. Any of you guys with the straight-walled 458s should check these out. The body is set to bore diameter, with driving bands to the groove diameter. This bullet aligns itself in the case and starts to seat perfectly due to the bore diameter shank at the base. Perfect for 458 Lotts and Wins.

The multiple drive bands give you a choice of lengths to crimp to, as the spaces between are effectively cannelures.

Atkinson should love these flat nose bullets. I guess the first band will act as a cutting shoulder???

I like these things. Now I have to try the 330 grain HV for USA use. I know what I'll use on buffalo someday. I did not recover any, as I got tired of digging!

0.368" Groups!! Gerard will be thrilled.
I won't tell him you glued the targets to the muzzle Don.

Seriously, that is some beautiful stuff.
You're all set ... now let's win the "Buffalotto" so you can get over there!

Regards ... Nick

Nick,

The shots were all taken at 100 yards (I swear!)

I suspect on a good day, the groups would have averaged less than .5 inches. The average vertical spread was .351, and that was hurt by the 1.303 which was mostly vertical.

These 21 rounds were fired after 27 rounds of hot 375 grain hardcast loads. (See Cast Bullets section.) All this was done between 17:30 and dark last night.

Also, I'm ashamed to admit that on the last shot of the third group the butt of the rifle slipped under my shoulder and the scope bloodied my nose. (May be an explanation for that 1.303!)

Don

[This message has been edited by Don G (edited 04-21-2001).]

Don and Nick,
Heres the clincher on that bullet...In my 450-400-3", 71.5 grs. of RL-15 puts 8 shots into 1" at 50 and 75 yds form a right left right left group....

Johann Calitz, has used them on all manner of dangerous game and lots of elephants and is satisfied that they are the worlds best solid, now you can't get any better reference thatn Johann, from an experience point of view.....

Oh yeah, they shoot 1/2" in my 416 Rem and my 375 H&H.....

Just an outstanding bullet...

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

------------------
Gerard Schultz
GS Custom Bullets

Gerard,

Quit bragging.

Sheeze, you'd think you invented the damn things!

Don

[This message has been edited by Don G (edited 04-23-2001).]

My R.S.A. gunmaker, Paul Nothnagle of "G.I. Wapensmid", knows both Gerard Schultz and Johann Calitz. Last year, on more than just one occasion, Calitz experienced end to end penetration on ele while using one of Pauls'
rifles with handloads utilizing the "GS" 570 gr. solids.

O.K. Gerard, I sent your book, so send me one box of those FN .416 380's. I e-mailed you too. Thanks.

------------------
Good huntin' and shootin',
Bwanawannabe, Daktari Ron

Gerard,
Ya better quit grinning and get to work on thoes 85 or 90 gr. 25-35 FN hollow points bullets or I'm gonna tell these guys the truth!!! (grin)

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ok, Ok, I will stop running around showing everybody Don's results and get back to work. We have expanded our operations a bit to cope with the increase in demand from outside of South Africa. More staff, and we moved one machine shop to another part of the building to make space for more lathes for bullet making. Life has been hectic the last two weeks. Darn, can't stop smiling.

------------------
Gerard Schultz
GS Custom Bullets

Here's a picture of the best group.

I can't believe the picture actually worked.

Note the almost perfect holes. I think that shoulder cuts!

Don

[This message has been edited by Don G (edited 07-10-2001).]

Keep practicing Don. There's entirely too much white showing between those holes.

Nick,

It was the wind, I say -- the wind!

Don

Yea O.K., I went back and re-read your initial post. I'm sorry. I forgot about the high winds. Guess your off the hook bro.

Those GS Custom bullets are obviously good stuff. They need a US distributor who can afford to keep a substantial inventor in stock.

Any volunteers?

500,

You beat me to it, all I can say is, agreed, we need a US destributor.

Gerard, have you contacted Huntingtons, or Dangerous Dave? Seems like it would fit in with what they carry.

I don't suppose anybody on this board in the states has any sort of set up for shipping stuff, so that a group order would be doable, w/o having one guy re-boxing and shipping all over the states, swearing at each and every one of us for getting himself in such a mess.

Sounds like the "job from Hell!"

I ordered from the web page, they took about three weeks to get here the cheap way if I remember rightly. Doesn't seem so bad to me.

I think it would be hard to get someone like Huntington's or Dangerous Dave to buy in, as they tend to stock well established products with known demand. I think the demand will increase on these as the word gets out!

When you pick the FNs up they scream "quality" through your fingers. Gerard is sending me some .416/330gr HVs to check out, and I expect them to be all he claims they are.

The HVs cost about $1.50 each delivered, and the FNs are about $1.10. That is in line with other premium bullets.

When you get me, Ray Atkinson and 500grains all agreeing on something, you must have something good. Now if, Daktari would get off his *couch* and try out those 380 gr. FNs we could sing chorus!

See 500grains' 470 Capstick group at:
http://skyboom.com/gscustom/index31.html

Don

[This message has been edited by Don G (edited 07-11-2001).]

Hey Don G,
I am flying home to do it today. Nice group.
I hope my Rigby does as well.

------------------
Good huntin' and shootin',
RAB

Don,

I have 3 road tractors and 4 1 tons at my bidding. Most of the time our drivers dead head back. I could have them pick up a shipment of bullets at Norfolk and bring them back here where I could pay some of the guys to weigh and package them.

Gerard,

I'd like to place a order for 4 tons of bullets...

Truthfully, I'd like to see a distributer even if it was on a small scale. And maybe for Christmas a 400 grain .458" FN with a .5" crimp to nose measurement.

DOC

DOC

Hi Guys,
I was in dire need of RAB's services the last couple of days. We had a flu epidemic cut a swath through the staff and the family.

I am discussing a US distributor at the moment and hope it comes together soon.

Doc,
How many do you want of the 400gr FN's? They are available and will be posted on the FN page after the weekend.

------------------
Gerard Schultz
GS Custom Bullets

Gerard,

That is great news!I hope it all works out.

Don

Gerard,
I know the guys at Huntingtons pretty well, you want me to talk to them...

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Gerard,
what is the length on the 400 gr .458"'s?

Go to his website by clinking on his name. It is a wealth of information about his bullets and thinking...all the bullet specs are there also.

DaveC,
I am at home at the moment, but working from memory it is 1.2", I will check and if it is different, will let you know.

Ray,
Thanks for the offer, I did approach them about six months ago but got no reply on two e-mails and we are talking to a fairly well known, but smaller outfit at the moment.

------------------
Gerard Schultz
GS Custom Bullets

Gerard and Don G,
The literature/data sheet that came with the 380 grain FN's said the 416 Rigby starting load was 96 grains of S 385. I haven't a clue what that powder is equivalent to.

I am reloading tonight and shooting tomorrow if the weather permits. Since H4831 worked wonders with 400 grainers of other make, I thought I would start with 104 grains of H4831 and seat the bullet out as far as the magazine and throat will allow and tune it from there. I expect less fouling along with the lower bore friction on the driving bands, so it seems to me, with the lighter weight 380 grain bullet versus the 400 grain traditional bullet, I might get lucky and hit my desired 2400 to 2500 fps with a minimum of fuss.

If not, hopefully a faster powder will not be required, just more or less H4831.

For the 335 HV in 416 Rigby: IMR 4831, H4350, IMR 4350, or Reloder 15 with filler?

The good thing about the 416 Hoffman/Remington is that it takes a caseful RL 15 so well. That is a most excellent powder. So is H4831 however.

------------------
Good huntin' and shootin',
RAB

Daktari,

What cartridge are you loading for? I thought you had a Rigby? In a Rigby QuickLoad says that 96 gr IMR4831 is just about equal to 96 gr of S385. I would start there as Gerard says, but take a load progression higher than you think you will need. That bullet builds speed faster than peak pressure with a decently slow powder.

In a Rigby you should easily get 2500 fps. With that case I would stop at 2550-2600. That bullet would easily hold up at 2800 fps, but impact at anything over 2600 is not of much practical benefit.

Looking forward to hearing from you!

Don

DOC,

Maybe you could bring one of those 1 tons up to Cincinnati with some fresh oysters and cold beer? We could have a party in my back yard.

Don

Gerard,
That is the the length that I am looking for.
Please add 300 of them to my .510" order, (if possible). If not, you have my account info. = David Casten

DB Bill, the 400 Gr are not yet set up.

Gentlemen, fellow shooters,
this bullet will be a revolation for the .45-70 crowd. The only contender will be the forth-comming 325-350 gr North Fork.
This will be used in a .450 Ak. I am hoping for 2300-2400 fps. Should be a dandy thumper for US / Can game.

Don G,
Thanks for the info and game plan. That software of yours is quite a resource. I will be trying both IMR 4831 and H4831. Yes it is a Rigby. I just confused the post by throwing in the comment about Reloder 15, as I always take notice of cartridges that work well with a full case of RL15. I guess the 416 Rigby is one of those 4831 kind of cartridges.

------------------
Good huntin' and shootin',
RAB

Daktari,

Im sorry, I did not read your post carefully enough. In a Rigby with the 380 Gr. GSC FC, 101.5 gr H4831 roughly equals the peak pressure of 96 gr. S385.

The momentum of the 380 gr. bullet matches the typical 400 grain/2400 fps when your muzzle velocity reaches 2525 fps.

I think you will be surprised at the accuracy. The groups I posted at the top of this thread were max COL (to the nearest cannelure). There was no tuning involved, just a straight charge progression to establish velocity. Gerard advises tuning for length after establishing velocity, but you'd have to be awfully anal or very curious to keep going beyond 0.5 MOA!

I seem to see a trend of good accuracy in factory barrels with the driving band design on the FNs. IMHO the major limitation on the Barnes was that they almost seemed to require a custom barrel to shoot well. I don't know if it was the fouling itself or the stiction that caused the fouling that detracted from the accuracy of the Barnes, but these GSC FNs don't foul much, and shoot well at most velocities.

Don

[This message has been edited by Don G (edited 07-13-2001).]

Don:

Could you state the OAL of your load in inches or mm?

Have you tried other powders?

Thanks, Antonio

Antonio,

I seem to remember it was 3.58 inches using 2.845 inch brass and crimped between the top two driving bands. I just sent off my last bullets to John Ricks, so I can't load one up. I will have to check my notes to see if I wrote it down. I know my magazine is not longer than 3.62 inches, and it fit but filled it.

I did not try other powders. I am fiscally constrained to shoot what's in the basement!

I would love to try N550 and RL-15. I'm not too sure about the H414, as I don't like ball powders in magnums. I think it is hard to light it off consistently.

Don

Don:

Thanks a lot for the data, it is most useful to me...

I got last year in South Africa 50 of Gerards 380gr FN bullets but I have not been able to try them on my 416 Rem. As in Mexico it is now impossible (and illegal...) to get reloading supplies, I must do my load development based on the experience of others to save on supplies I still have. Right now I only have some IMR 4064...

I hope to get as good results as you have, because I think this bullet is precisely what buffaloes have been asking for in decades...

Thanks again, Antonio

Antonio,

If your chamber is as big as my factory chamber was, you should get 2450 fps at around 77 grains of IMR 4064. That is approaching 57000 psi, which is probably where I would stop, pressure-wise. I was using Winchester Large Rifle primers, not magnum primers. If your rifle has a custom barrel or small chamber, you might drop back to 75 grains. At any rate, when you get to 2450 fps, you are very nearly maxed out for that powder.

IMR4064 and IMR4895 are good versatile powders, and do well with this bullet. 2450 fps ought to be enough! I'd bet you could get 2600 easily with VihtaVuori N550, though. Someday I will find out.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Don

[This message has been edited by Don G (edited 07-14-2001).]

DaveC,

It appears you are preaching to the choir!

Don

Don G,
I had a super day at the range!

My load development was completed for the 380 grain GSC FN in 416 Rigby after the second 3-shot group at 100 yards. I went ahead and fired 3 more groups for a total of 15 shots only. I still have 35 of them to take to Botswana.

I started at 104 grains of H4831 in Norma 416 Rigby brass, with Federal GM215M primer.
All loads were seated without crimp to the point where the third driving band back from the nose of the bullet is just disappearing into the case. Thus, six bands are in the case neck and two are out front. The case is just getting full at this point, though not compressed. There is about .040" bullet jump to contact the lands from this point and the magazine easily allows this length: COL= 3.710" with that FN sitting pretty in the 416 Rigby.

104 grains H4831 >>> 2477 fps
105 grains H4831 >>> 2509 fps
106 grains >>> 2536 fps
107 grains >>> 2559 fps
108 grains >>> 2583 fps

The 105 grain load gave 3-shots into 0.147" at 100 yards. The three velocities were:
2507 fps
2512 fps
2507 fps

I need look no farther. This is the best 3-shot group I have ever had with any rifle.

There is no audible powder rattle with shaking the cartridge. I think it is just starting to compact at this seating depth and powder volume. I tried beating the bullet deeper by gripping a cartridge in my fist and pounding the nose on the shooting bench> It did not budge. I feel no need to crimp this load, especially when it shoots 0.147".

The Rifle is an out of the box Ruger 416 Rigby Model 77 Magnum... the one with the 0.810" muzzle diameter.

The scope was set at 5X... Leupold Vari-X III 1.5-5X, standard duplex reticle.

Those GS Custom FN's are unbeatable IMHO.

[This message has been edited by R. A. Berry (edited 07-15-2001).]

Daktari,

Man! That is fantastic stuff.

It appears to me that Gerard has a winner, and so do you!

It appears your 104 grain prediction was on the money!

At the risk of repeating myself, I'd like everyone to note that this is another factory barrel getting these unbelievably good results.

If it wasn't for the wind, I'd have matched your group size. (It's good to have an excuse... )

Just for completeness can you give us the other group sizes? How was fouling, etc? Did you clean between groups? Did you need to?

I would order another 50 ASAP, and test fire five shots with the same cartridges in the magazine, then examine them for length.

Slay 'em and give us a report when you get back! How long before you go to Botswana?

As Gerard says on his web site, "I like it when a plan comes together!"

Don

[This message has been edited by Don G (edited 07-15-2001).]

Don G,
You are right, there was no wind at the range today. About 85 degrees F, sunny and calm. Perfect shooting conditions for an Africa tune-up. The first 3-shot group was my fouler, measured about 1.25" with the 104 grain charge. Then came the 0.147" group with the 105 grain charge of H4831. I didn't care after that, I was just yanking the trigger to get velocities. The 2583 fps load with 108 grains of H4831 was right at MOA.

I will be leaving next Saturday. I also enjoy it when a plan comes together. I will finally have some African experience to get post-safari depression over.

I will do the final zero tomorrow, and shoot from a full magazine, as you suggested. Some offhand shooting at the gongs and a look at the GSC FN in collision with 3/4" mild steel plate...wait a minute, I only have 35 of those precious FN's left! We definitely need to get a U.S. distributor for them.

As you said, those bullets just scream quality: Tough and accurate, precisely beautiful I want to be the poster child for GS Custom, "professional small boy" that I am!

I have played with the 850 grain HV .510 cal. prototype, but only to establish a working load (215 grains of H50BMG).
I also want to get some of those 335 grain .416 caliber HV's and see what they will do.

------------------
Good huntin' and shootin',
RAB

[This message has been edited by R. A. Berry (edited 07-15-2001).]

R.A.B.,

Be sure not to shoot such a group as this while checking for zero, upon arrival in Botswana. They'll think you missed the target entirely with shots 2 and 3!!

Seriously, I wish you the time of your life.

Best Regards ... Nick