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We all get used to various trajectories with our favorite hunting rifles. The following questions actually span medium and big bores, from plains game to elk. (The question is not applicable to an elephant-only rifle.) In the questions below, round upwards after 50 fps above a choice. For example, if you prefer 2675 fps, choose 2800 fps for the questionnaire. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | ||
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To large a range for me. I use around 2650 for 375 but drop to 2250 for my 400. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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I think you need to separate big bores and med bores,as the answers differ, can't lump them in to one category..For instance in Africa I would load my .375 to 2500 max..In Colorado or Idaho for elk Id push up to at least 2650 FPS. For about any North American cartridge the magical number is 2800 FPS at the muzzle IMO. Most all big bores above the 375 its 2400 FPS in my rifles.. But is anyones option, I know some want 3000 or more 300 gr. bullet in a 338 or 375 watchamacallet for instance..the more the marrier bunch, and that's OK, just not my cup of tea er coffee in my case. I ain't no tea sipper!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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My choice of 2800 fps was spot on. But then I was assuming a caliber like 280 Rem with 160 grain bullets. With my 9.3X62 it would be 2400 fps and the 416 Rigby with 340 gr Woodlieghs would be 2800 fps My 9.5X57 MS with 250 gr bullets would be 2200 fps "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Opinions and experience will vary with animal, vegetation, bullet choice and distance but here s a preference list based on purely anecdotal experience of 2- 7 animals per rifle and dissections ..not the gospel! Elk and mule deer in the high altitude desert out to 805 yd ..375 with SMK at 2900 or 3270 fps depending on distance and rifle. Accuracy and distance is the preference not the fact it's a frangible bullet ( I once read C Boddington had used SMK on a buffalo)! Plains impala to wildebeest 30-378 WBY (highly customized and 6" grouping at 1000yd) 180TSX at 3250 fps. They barely flinch and drop Plains to and including buffalo : Gibbs 505 540gr solid 2350fps and - 600gr 2150 fps TSX or Woodleigh Buffalo .577 NE 750 gr at 2100 fps | |||
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Plains game... 308 caliber rifle with 180gr at 2600-2800fps 375 caliber rifle with 250gr at 260fps Thick skinned game... 375 caliber rifle with 300gr at 2400fps 458 caliber wit 450-500gr at 2200-2300fps These would be my preferred hunting velocities in medium and big bores for hunting in Africa. But personal preference vary from person to person as there are a lot of other options available... Gerhard FFF Safaris Capture Your African Moments Hunting Outfitter (MP&LP) Proffesional Hunter (MP&LP) History guide Wildlife Photographer www.fffsafaris.co.za | |||
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All depends where you are hunting. For relatively short distances for plains game anything reasonable will do. For the longer distances I prefer higher velocity. Big dangerous game I prefer a suitable caliber with a minimum muzzle velocity of 2,400 fps. | |||
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For elk in Colorado or Montana I've been very happy with our 270 Wins shooting 150g Partitions at 3000 fps. Does well at 15 yards or 500. Haven't been to Africa yet, but when I go I plan to use my 500 Jeffery for everything. I just won't shoot at any plains game past 200 yards. A 570g A-Frame at 2300 fps should do the job just fine out to that range. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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2800 is my preference up to the 30-06, but this has nothing to do with range,accuracy etc, its about bullet performance on game, if you want range velocity is the critical component. I like the 30-06, 7x57 class of cartridges on elk up to 250 yards,not beyond, Therefore it only seems pratical that I use a 300 WBY or equal caliber for instance to get that same performance at 350 to 500 yards.. Thats why I actually like a .338 Win. for elk at the ranges I shoot at elk, and that's between 350 and 400 yards..Its simply a better elk round than my 30-06 and I like the bullet weight over my 300s, but the 300s are certainly elk rounds to 400 maybe 500 yards IMO.. The old Betsy 06, 270, or 7x57 for instance, are grand cartridges, but to even suggest they are superior to a .338 on an animal as large as a Moose or Elk at extended ranges, is simply a fallacy. Have I used 06 and 7mm on elk, and I have killed several elk and lots of plainsgame with my 30-06 and 7x57 but I limit the range to about 250 yards mostly 200 yards I suspect. I,ve even used both the 06 and 7x57 on a cape buffalo at short range, which makes more since to me than shooting elk at 400 or 500 yards with either. Just my take on the subject,and my self implied limits. But such things are up to the individual, thank goodness for that. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Those are figures that I understand and it makes good sense. My wife will need to choose between her 375Ruger and 270Win for elk. The 270 shoots a 129LRX at 3125fps for 2800ft# at the muzzle. That should be fine for elk up close, but at 350 and 400 yards her bullet slows down to 2525fps (1825ft#) at 350 yards, and then 2450fps (1715ft#) at 400yards. Still 'OK' but not great. Her 375 with a 20" barrel shoots a 250TTSX in tight groups at both 2700fps and 2840fps. The 2700fps load slows to 2085fps (2410ft#) at 350 yards, then 2005fps (2230ft#) at 400 yards. Very huntable. The faster load 2840fps 250gnTTSX does 2200fps (2710 ft#) at 350yards and 2125fps (2520 ft#) at 400. The choice will be hers. It will probably boil down to how good the new double-shoulder rubber sling feels for carrying her rifle up a mountain. I would let her borrow my stateside 338WM, which weighs close to her 375, but she shoots lefty and I'm a righty. A person must admit that the 338 is one impressive elk cartridge. The current load in my rifle shoots a 225gnTTSX at 2835fps, which slows down to 2310fps (2670 ft#) at 350 yards and 2240fps (2510 ft#) at 400 yards. That 2500 ft# at 400 yards is a lot of elk rifle and pretty much the same as her hotter load 375. She wins on diameter. So we agree on the 338 being an awesome elk rifle. I do believe that that is why they were invented. There are many other good and great elk rifles, but the 338WM just makes common sense for a common hunter.  And that 2700-2800fps practical hunting velocity pops up again and again. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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PS: my wife's 270 load still has 2000 ft# at about 300 yards, so I would rate her 270 as a 300-yard elk rifle. Huntable, but not the same as a 338 or 375. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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So my load for the 150g Partition in my ancient BDL in 270 with a 22" barrel is Remington cases, neck sized only, Federal 215 primers and a lot of H4831 gives 3030 fps chrono'd many times. At 500 yards it's still moving at 2000 fps. We used Federal Vita Shock ammo for awhile until I chrono'd it at 2650 fps. We no longer shoot factory in our 270s. I consider it a good 400 yard elk and 500 yard mule deer load. Not as good as a 338 Win Mag or our 375 Weatherby but it's proven itself over and over again. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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Yes, that's a bonafide elk load (3060ft#), almost 10% above typical 270 levels (2700-2800ft#), but a great load in your rifle. Velocity doesn't cross 2000fps until 600yards (but only 1400ft#). It's energy level would cross the 2000ft# level at about 335yards. So I would rate it a 350 yard elk load, and as always a person could push it a lot farther. I just checked out the .277" 180gnWoodleigh Weldcore. At 'normal' 270 levels (2650fps, 2800ft#), it already crosses the 2000ft# level at 285 yards. But its high BC and sectional density of .335 would make it pretty nice, too. If you could get it up to 3050ft# muzzle energy (2760fps) it would hold >2000ft# out to 360 yards. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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So many caliber so many cartridge that are all fun to use from cast bullets from low 1000s to rip roaring others well into the many thousands fps second. I really can not come up with a favorite velocity I had a great time killing things with slow moving cast and a great time with the speedster. So after thinking about my reply for a while I don't have one. It is always so dependent on what I am hunting and what I am hunting with. | |||
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No doubt the .270 and the 30-06 are elk rifles, been too many elk killed with them to deny them their due.. My post simply states the .338 Win is a better round for elk and moose, no doubt in my mind about it...One of the reasons I went to the .338 is most of the elk I shot with my 30-06 required a second, ocassionally a 3rd shot at ranges 300 yards and beyond, or at least they stay on their feet long enough to require another shot or two..Perhaps I could have just sat down and waited for them to expire and in most cases that would have worked since the shots were place properly, but such things make me nervous and I don't want my next years meat getting away..The last guy that told me his .270 was all that was needed shot a huge bull elk and it reared up, tip over and drove its horns into the ground, That usually breaks the neck on an elk, I saw the bullet hit the heart lung area and I called it dead, we watched it awhile and then fought our way to it, and it was gone, showed a frothy blood trail for about a 200 yards then headed down a hell of a divide on wet ground below snow line and tracking got hard and slow then it got dark, They went back the next two days and finally gave up out of exhaustion, Idaho ain't kind to hunters. I have witnessed such on another occasion or two with smaller calibers. After that I just decided to pack more gun and Im good with that,it was a smart move. Makes no since to me to use a light rifle just to make a point or lather up ones ego. Im firm in use enough gun these days..Havn't always been that way and Ive used really light guns, before I knew better. Ive used the 25-35, 30-30, 250 savage on elk and successfully, but watched some mighty big bulls walk off at 400 and 500 yards in those early days because dad told me don't shoot further than you know you can hit the heart and that's about 100 yards, and that's what I did. The crutch of this subject is be honest with yourself and know your range limit and abide by it come hell or high water and you wont be sleeping on the side of a mountain in a foot or two of snow on track..Those that claim otherwise and always base on only a kill or two are either good hunters that limit the range and place the bullet, or it just hasn't been their turn in the barrel yet. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Another PS for Chuck: Checking the Nosler 150gn Accubond Long Range, a 2900fps muzzle velocity (approx. 2800ft#) still has 1915 ft# at 400 yards. That is spitting distance to the 2000 ft# threshold for a thumper elk round, and would be a 400 yard rating. It actually has 2000 ft# at 360 yards, something that would equal the 180gnWoodleigh, assuming that one could launch the Woodleigh 10% above normal energy levels. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I agree Ray, and if I was on a trophy hunt of a live time, I'd take our Rem XCR II in 375 Weatherby. With a 2-7x Leupold on it, it weighs under 7 1/2 lbs and will shoot a 300g A-Frames or Partitions at 2800 fps. We don't have a 338 Win Mag or I'd take that ...  Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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9.3-62mm 320 gr PP Woodleigh-2400 fps 375 H&H 300 gr A-Frame-2700 fps 375 AI 270 gr TSX-3000 fps 400 Whelen 400 gr Woodleigh-2255 fps 416 Taylor 400 gr Partition-2400 fps 458 Win Mag 500 gr PP Woodleigh-2150 fps 505 Gibbs 600 gr Woodleigh Soft and Solid, an easy 2150 fps 500 NE 570 gr TSX and Solid 2168 fps 577 NE 750 gr TSX and Solid 2070 fps Main Elk gun is a big 33 cal wildcat that fires a 300 gr Accubond at 3000 fps, it wears a 2.5-10x42mm Nightforce Compact scope, a flat-lander traveling that far to hunt has to be prepared for near or far, and any angle gifted, it WONT disappoint. | |||
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I think we have to keep in mind that some of these quoted velocities at 300, 400 and 500 yards show you just shot your 1000 pound bull with a 30-30 or less caliber..sure no room for mistakes at those ranges and velocities..and that's been the cause of many wounded elk, and a hit like that by the time you get to them, they are long gone and your works just begun.. Ive noticed over the years that about 99% of the hunters that have hung up their 270s or whatever for .338s, 375s have been wounded elk in the high country and those day in day out tracking jobs that end in no elk..Its a lesson in life for sure. I know a bunch of local Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado, and Montana boys that have gone to the 300s and 338s and they are some of the most successful elk hunters Ive ever known..Maybe they have a point. I also have lived among some great elk hunters, mostly ranchers and cowboys who still use such guns as the Win. 94 30-30, 243, 250 Savage, 300 Savage and such. They know the gun and its ability as well as their ability to place a shot, they are amoungst elk and deer every day and in no great hurry to shoot,so they just wait until a easy shot presents itself, and the ranch has haystacks if hunting get tough, they might even shoot one of the haystack..A 30-30 is a fine gun for them and all the gun they will ever need. That is a whole lot difference than the non resident hunter who may get only one chance to shoot his trophy bull, and he had better be up to the task or he goes home empty and out a bunch of dollars..therein lies the difference. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Hunting velocities in big and medium bores
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