if I had any use for it whatsoever (and had the $11K) this would be mine....

I hear ya....

for a good bit less than $11k, this one IS mine:


Brent

Went to a gun show yesterday, just a somewhat local show that is sometimes described as the usual dog and pony show. Walked by a guys table, thought nice sxs shotguns then noticed the sights, express sights! Took a closer look, he had a Holland and Holland 12 bore double rifle, made in 1887. It was named to a rahjah(sp) who ,according to the owner, used it to hunt tigers. Allegedly killed over 1,500. The price was $17,000, I was only $16,000 short!

This may be old hat to most of you but it was the first english big bore double I have gotten to see live.

Yep, and Wilt Chamberlain really did 10,000 wimmen...

Too bad you didn't have the extra 16K, the old bore rifles are nifty!

Muzzleloader or cartridge rifle? If the former, I wonder if I haven't seen photos of it.

I have an 18 bore double (joseph lang) muzzleloader that I'll sell a bit cheaper

Brent

Paradox, is actually a H&H name for what Brent described. Not sure if H&H trademarked that term though. The rifling are only present at the last 4" or so of the barrel. Paradox bore guns are loaded (more accurately proofed) at pressures between the shotgun and the true rifle, tyically. Although, I have seen a few which were proofed to shot pressure levels.

But of course I could be wrong, afterall I am an ASS_CLOWN

ASS_CLOWN

It was a cartridge rifle,under lever style, The same guy also had a oval bore paradox rifle. I thought that the paradox rifles were tapered bore. Doe3s that make sense or am I not rembering it correctly?

Fireman,
Paradox rifles have rifling only in the last few inches of the bore. At least, that's my understanding. I've never handled one.

Brent

The 'oval' pattern rifling is called 'Lancaster' style.

Thanks for straightening me out on that. I did not check it out too closely as I was busy drooling over the 12 bore rifle.

fireman,

If the rifle is an old 12 bore Paradox, Explora etc it may indeed have killed more than 1000 tigers in it's prime. The old 12 bore rifles as well as the partially rifled Paradox etc are still prized and used by those who own them on wild boar. Lesser folk like me use smoothbore 12 bore break open shotguns which work equally well on the pigs when we use them the way they were meant to be used - at close range and with careful shots.

No idea about the price etc in the USA but you can still get them in India at mych cheaper prices than what has been mentioned here and I have given several members the addresses and contact details of dealers in India though I have no idea whether anyone has bought one from there.

That said, muzzle-loading 12 bore rifles, both single and double barrel are still being made in India by an old company and they are proofed by the Indian Ordnance Factory. These would cost well under US$ 1000 and I have catalogues that I could forward to anyone who is interested. The company's website is www.curioushouse.com though they don't list their full product range on their website. I have no financial interest in this - the company have been generous to me with information etc for another member here and I believe that I owe them some publicity.

There is also an Indian member here, Siddhant Agarwal who owns a gun shop and constantly has interesting rifles for sale including a Greener 450 double which looks like it just came out of the factory but he almost never posts, which is, in my opinion, a real shame as he knows his guns well. Siddhant, are you listening?

Best wishes and do try these grand old guns if you have them. I can assure you that you won't be disappointed.

Good hunting!