Now that CZ is making a 458 Lott, which would you go with, the 416 rebarreled to 458, or the 458 Lott?

I see the 416 as a very easy conversion, but requires recutting the stock, etc. and rebarreling. While you give up a couple rounds in mag capacity, you end up with a bigger case capacity, lower pressure(less recoil, less pressure?) to generate the same ballistics the Lott does.

I guess I've always liked the idea of not using the case fully, but keeping pressure down, by using a bigger case.

Another consideration is the 510 Wells. My concern there is a lott of pressure;-) and recoil.

The 458 Lott seems by far the most sensible. Factory ammo, you can use 458 win mag in it, you can also use 458 win dies, which I have, etc.
Comments?

The 450 Rigby, with new barrel, would nearly double the price of the rifle. Same with the 510 Wells. Am I also correct that reloading the 450 Rigby and 510 wells is equally double the cost of the Lott?

It's really nice to finally have an affordable 458 Lott, provided they don't raise the price a bunch.

gs

550 MAGNUM All the horse power you will ever need. Just rebarrel RNS

[ 10-19-2003, 22:10: Message edited by: RNS ]

"Mortal Man Will Never Have Enough Guns".

Make one of each.

In a more sensible tone, once you lay in a supply of brass, loading cost difference is minor.

Cheapest way is to rechamber the CZ550 458 Win Mag to a Lott and work over the feeding. You should be able to find someone near you that has a Lott reamer. I do not like rechambering a CZ hammer forged barrel, getting a nice chamber finish sometimes will drive one back to the farm mucking out stalls. You can also rechamber the 458 Win Mag to 450 Dakota. Hovever, the factory barrel is too light a contour for a high recoil rifle, you will be able to manage the recoil much better with a No. 6 or heavier contour. Same for the Lott.

Putting on a new barrel, nice sights, barrel recoil lug, and labor will add $1000 or so. More if you go to a nicer stock or add something like Robar finish.

[ 10-19-2003, 23:24: Message edited by: John Ricks ]

Socs,

I went with a cz 550 and coverted to the .458 Lott Hornady headstamped brass and Hornady dies where reasonable, I have 5 in the mag and one in the spout and due to this I had a little money to add a couple of nice extras such as two extra crossbolts and a barrel band, had rails & lugs polished as well. Feeds great, also has plenty of recoil so one can imagine how the .450 Rigby etc. would be.

Also I think the Lott case capacity may lend itself a little better to using 45/70 style bullets for stuffing about better than the bigger case, I have shot a few speer 400 gr bullets from mine and that should prove an interesting load for Aussie thin skinned stuff. All in all I would go with the Lott, it's a good match with your .375 H&H.

Uhhh, Soc' ol' chappie . . .
I did that CZ to .450 Rigby conversion. 'tmade a wonderful rifle that'll be even more wonderful when I get her restocked. So far I'm into around $2,600 for the conversion. That did included openin' the magazine to give me 4 down and installing' a M70 type trigger, Talley sights and havin' a proper barrel band for the sling. Can't be shootin' DG with a stock slung rifle, don'tcherknow. If yer tryin' to build a big one for pence just go the .416. Use the new American style stock and y'll have a hellofalot fewer problems. That Rigby will loosen yer dentures fast enough!

Anybody know what the 450 Rigby gets for velocity, using a 500 grain bullet, and 40,000 cup, or psi?
Or, for that matter, the Lott?
s

[ 10-20-2003, 09:40: Message edited by: Socrates ]

Soc,
My load is 105 gr. of IMR 4350 for 2280 fps. 106 would send it over 2300 and that would give you three foot tons of muzzle energy. Given that my rifle weighs 10.25 lbs empty and has two mercury buffers and the fattest KickEze pad you can buy on it, I call it manageable. However, if I don't shoot it for a couple of months, I have to start getting used to it all over again and that takes another couple of months. I suppose that if one was an elephant culler or hunted buff to feed a railroad crew, popping off a couple of rounds a day wouldn't bother me much. Still and all, it IS a handfull.

I thought you posted some time ago you already had one ?????

Socrates,
Start with the Rigby, as that's the MOST classic of all these rounds...

then, if you like, rebarrel to 510wells/500a2 and load them to 500 jeffe levels/pressure. the cases are fairly close and you don't have to load to hi pressure.. and, believe me, the recoil will be enough.

jeffe

Hi Socrates,
An alternate.

[ 10-21-2003, 08:52: Message edited by: 470 Mbogo ]

Nitro X:

quote:

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I thought you posted some time ago you already had one

---

I was already to convert my 375 H&H to the Lott, but my gunsmith talked me out of it.

He, like everybody here, thinks that the 375 is a rifle caliber everyone has to have. He argued, that for long range, it simply can't be beat, and, that another rifle was a wiser choice then rebarreling, or, having the barrel recut.

Finally, between Impala bullets telling me I don't need anything else, for anything I'd hunt, and, he's right, and the number of excellent bullets coming out, and avaliable for 375, I think they might have a point. Another factor is I'm almost 50, and, I've been pretending I'm 35.

Stuff that I didn't used to feel is now giving me aches and pains for 3 days. I'm loosing flexibility, and, the last time I shot my 375, I shot it so badly that I stopped after 6 rounds, with a headache, and a string, rather them my usual performance. This was AFTER having a brake installed.

My gunsmith has hand problems caused by lotts of shooting big bore rifles and handguns, and I, only by the grace of God, do not.

Ray might well be right, that the over 50 crowd is best served by the 416 Rigby, and leave it at that.

I'm still up in the air about the recoil on a 2400 fps 400 grain bullet, vs. a 500 grain 2300 fps, if the former has a much lower case pressure to achieve that velocity.Anyway, Nickudu has to quit posting such great articles, since I have to get up for work at 6am.

gs

I think it would be really cool to have a 416 and 450 Rigby in matching guns.

I wondered the same thing...would it be better to get two 416s and have one rebarreled to 450 or buy a 458 and have it rechambered and magazine/bolt opened. It's an interesting study. I honestly don't know enough about the 450 Rigby to compare it to the Lott.

Tex,
The .450 Rigby is basically a .460 Weatherby without the belt. You can load a Rigby up to stupidity or a Weatherby down to good sense and you get the same rifle. The difference is that with the Rigby you get an extra round in the magazine (plus extra panache', lineage, pith helmets, monocles and handlebar mustaches, don'tcherknow!)

Are the 450 and 416 Rigby built on the same case?

Try a long throat 458 win mag made from a CZ458 win mag! Cheaper than a Lott and about the same performance. With a good piloted throater you can actually do it with an extention rod by hand. No mag box changes, no barrel/ sights allingment problems, Just 2250 fps with a 500 gr bullet. You can also load it way down to 45/70 levels. You can always convert it to a Lott later if you want!-Rob

<doubletap>

[ 10-22-2003, 06:16: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

True enough, but . . . the .450 Rigby is based on the .416 case and that is what Roy "borrowed" and belted to make first the .378 (horrible monster that it is) and later the .460. So the question of what came first is a little less complicated than that of the chicken and egg but anything with "Rigby" on it has precedance over anything with "Weatherby" on it and thus gets rights to pith helmets, etc. Weatherby only rates straw cowboy hats with pheasant feather sunbursts, chewing tobacco and belt buckles big enough to use as a leopard blind.

Choices are beautiful.

What I like:

Straight cases that I can reload forever.
Low pressure loads, like Oldsarge is talking about, with big cases, so there is always insanity there if you want to go there.

Reasonable price: With CZ 416's, and now CZ 458 Lotts coming out, all I need to do is send it to my gunsmith, let him double bolt, bed, and check,
and I'm in business.

I've already got 375 and 458 dies, so the press can come out of the closet one of these days, and I'm just about ready to go.
Don't like single stages, but, with these calibers, and the Impala Bullets, it's going to happen.

quote:

---

The difference is that with the Rigby you get an extra round in the magazine (plus extra panache', lineage, pith helmets, monocles and handlebar mustaches, don'tcherknow!)

---

ROFL!!!

OK: can we call the new 550 Magnum a 550 Rigby?
It's just a straight walled 416 case, isn't it?

Isn't there a nitro express round that is just a straight case, in about this caliber?

Seems like all that obnoxious British arogance, and attitude should come with this round, as well.


I'm just sort of waiting. SOMETHING will come up, that I want, soon. Just missed a 458 Cz, that a guy sold to someone else.

That's ok, since I'm really jazzed about the new
458 Lott, 550 Safari Magnum.

However, don't you think a 550 Safari Magnum, chambered in 550 Rigby Magnum is the cat's meow?
The lion's roar?

Well, you get the idea...

gs

I worry about a straight case in a bolt gun. What do you headspace on? If the bore is so big it straightens out the case then I'm more comfortable with the belt. That's why I think the biggest you can safely go on the Rigby case is the .470 Mbogo. If you want to go to .50 cal than I'd move up to .505 Gibbs and I have heard that that can be a real headache. Anyone have experience to clarify the situation?