I am just enquiring to find out which was the largest most powerful of the old bison rounds, and what replica firearms are these made in.

Secondly who makes the best replica's of these firearms.

Was the Sharps rifle the most used or the springfield trapdoor models or was there others I am missing ??

PC,
I suspect that would be the 50-120...

To correct Ray (which is rarely necessary) the largest of the "Buffalo" cartridges was the
50-140 Sharps. I believe that Ballard and C. Sharps will chamber this cartridge, but I am not sure.

The 50-140 Sharps is almost identical the British 500 NE 3.25", by the way. This cartridge like the 45-120 Sharps entered the market near the end of commercial buffalo hunting so it most likely did not do much buffalo killing. To be honest most buffalo were killed with 45-70s or 45-90s.

50-140 !! I would like to see a pick of this cartridge.

So 45/70 & 45/90 were the most popular were they ??

I would like to buy one of these rifles one day, which replica's are the best made ?? And what caliber do others on this forum own ??

PC,

You could get a new Winchester 1886 lever action in 45-70 and have it turned into a 50-110 Winchester. This way you would have a true mondern 50-caliber repeater. I believe that the 50-110 Winchester is 2.400 in long and with mondern smokeless powder, it would be a very potent cartridge in a light weight lever action rifle. Starline is making "mondern" brass for this cartridge. Have fun. Cheers! Ming

My 2 cents:
At the start of the buff.hunting almost anything was used but it soon became clear that the bigger bores did better.
The 50-70 gov.was populair but soon the big 50 Sharps (50-90 or 50-2 1/2) was found to be a better performer.
As the hunt progrest and the ranges got longer the 45 became the favorite the 50-120 was never realy in the picture and Sharps did never chamber the 74 in it.
To make a stand the range had to be 300 to 400 yards and yes the 50-2 1/2 did make the 1535 yard shot at Adoby Walls with it's 1:36" twist it could only stabilize a 475gr paper patch bullet, making it not a long range performer hence the 45"
Again the 45 and the50 -120 cases came out when the hunt was over.
Rifle"s are available from:C Sharps and Shiloh Sharps both in Big Timber Montana. Petersoly (not spelt right)sells economy priced Sharps and Remington rolling blocks and I believe the Montana Rifle man sells the Ballards.

A word of warning if you decide to go for a 50, when I bought mine 5 years ago the only twist available was 1 ;36
This makes it hard to make it shoot accurate at longer range.
Get a faster twist 1:20 or 1:24 this allows you to shoot the 550 and 600 gr bullets.

Rgards Martin

PC,

The most powerful .50 caliber was the .50 Sharps 3 1/4" cases made by Bell's.

Nearly the double case capacity than a 50-70 Gov.

PC - if you are just really in heat for such a thing and have something like $1,500.00 you don't need, these guys might help.

Check out http://www.csharpsarms.com

Thanks gents, Pescos you have to remember that 1500US is about 3000Aus I would love to own one of those rifles and down the track I would like to purchase one. Thanks for the link Pescos. I am also in the process of building a .585 Nyatti which is keeping me poor at the minute so this will definitely be a while down the track. I also have to get a pair of black shoes first (.375 H&H)

That 50-140 would have to kick a little with those old fashioned stocks ??

In regards to these replica's which is the favoured brand ?? & which ones should a potential purchaser steer clear of.

Some of those books on that link look interesting Pescos.

PC,

I had a .50-150 three and a quarter inch for a while; it made a terrific wall hanger in my living room.

A Navy Chief I knew wanted one because his grandfather had owned one. So he bought a Sharps reproduction from one of the modern makers in Montana, and asked me to make some loads for the rifle.

I did that job, but finding dies and basic cases to work from took some time and money. I took rifle and Chief to the range and we shot a box of ammo. Well, he shot it 3 times, and I shot it the rest. Later he asked me if I would like to buy the rifle at a small price, and I did so. I found a gent later who wanted it for a shooter, so I passed it along.

He kept telling me when I ran into him at the gun shop about his long-range results, and his plan to re-barrel to another of the Sharps calibers -- I think .45-120.

Not too much later he died of a brain tumor, so I was glad to have given him some good times before the end.

jim dodd

Thanks Jim, that rifle is something I would love to own !! Obviously recoil was stiff ??

What brand was this rifle ??

Todd,
your correct and I knew better, just wasn't thinking..In fact I used to have a 50-140 Sharps. well duh!!

PC- In my old blackpowder sihloette shooting days, I shot a shiloh sharps .45-120( I just had to have one after watching Quigley down under. How could you even think of anything else?) with hand swaged 500 gr. paper patched bullets. At 600 yrds it would shoot 10 inch groups! Trajectory was like a rainbow and I had to use long rang caliper sights with windage adjustment on the front sight. An interesting fact is that at 100 yrds I consistently got 2 to 2.25 inch groups. The theory is that these long bullets go to sleep past 300 yrds and accuracy and precision often improve. Thing kicks like a .458 Win and in a match I had to wear a recoil shield after about 30 rds.
By the way I have shot a few .50-140's and they kicked even harder! About the same as a .600 overkill in a 13 lb rifle!( just kidding)-Rob

Thanks for the imfo folks.

Rob, I have not seen "Quigley down under" what is it about a bloke that comes to Australia

If it is any good I will have to hire it out and have a look

PC- you just gotta get a copy. You will love it! This movie and the ghosts in the Darkness have cost me a lot of money! After watching a the ghosts in the darkness I had to buy a double rifle and go to Africa. Maybe I'll take my sharps with me when I go to Australia next time.-Rob

I will hire it out this weekend gentlemen.

Are there any movies about actual bison hunting in America, or good documentries ??

You come to OZ Rob i'll supply you with the VB. You try your "Quigley shooting out on some grass hoppers"

[ 08-06-2002, 08:03: Message edited by: PC ]

PC,

Here is a link to a page at SSK's web site:

www.sskindustries.com/cart_pics.html

The lower right hand photo displays a 50 x 3 1/4 x 750. This is simply the 50-140 case stuffed with a 750 BMG pill.

I understand it is rather effective on jackrabbits....

~Holmes

Thanks Holmes !! Interesting cartridges.
It does not look right with a BMG bullet in it though it needs an old fashioned lead bullet

PC,

It was a Shiloh Sharps made rifle.

I didn't think the recoil was that tough to handle, but that rifle weighed quite a few pounds too.

jim dodd

Another movie with the Sharps in it (if my memory is working today) was "valdez is coming" with Burt Lancaster. Another good flick. I shoot a 50-70 in a light weight rolling block (original, with the lovely stock design), and it kicks pretty good. I "need" a 50-140 though. - Dan

HI,

MING, answer to your question is yes. I am going to get my win 86 in a 50-110 back in around 4 weeks. I had MR. Clay make me the 50-110 and it will be loaded with heavy weight bullets, I am going to get a custom mould made for me that will be a 570 grain WFN, gas check.I will get between 2000-2100 fps with it. I have 525 grain bullets from Cast Performance, but want a heavier bullet as it will increase the SD and have more penetration. I order 250 rounds from starline, but they are back up so I ordered 150 rounds from Bertram as they had a sell on the 50-110 brass and when I looked at them they were to say the least very large, next to some 50 Alaskan brass I had even made them look small.Thanks,Kev

Kev, what twist is your 50-110 going to have? I'm thinking of those heavy bullets, the original 50-110 was just loaded with relative lightweights, as I'm sure you know. Just curious. - Dan

I don't think Tom Selleck is hunting with his Hollywood rifle, according to the NRA firearms museum page...

http://www.nrahq.org/museum/whatsnew.asp

quote:

---

On exhibit are guns used by actors including Charlton Heston, Mel Gibson, John Wayne, Tom Selleck, Ben Affleck, Tommy Lee Jones, Chuck Connors, and Marlon Brando; and from movies such as Dirty Harry, Quigley Down Under, The Patriot, Planet of the Apes, The Missouri Breaks, Tombstone, Star Wars, and many more.

---

Rick.

rick3foxes,
[QB]I don't think Tom Selleck is hunting with his Hollywood rifle, according to the NRA firearms museum page...
[/QUOTE]/QB][/QUOTE]

You're right in fact Tom Selleck have the money to hunt with one of the most expensive rifle handmade in Belgium
http://www.lebeau-courally.com/

Too expensive for me

If you have seen a 500-3 1/4" nitro you haveseen a 50- 3 1/4 sharps case the only real difference is that the sparps fave a thicker rim. This round makes a fine deer rifle and as you are in Aus. it should not tax it to much for a roo or to. If you get serious I can send you some smokless loads I use. If you get a rifle on a good enough action this will do anything the nitro will do. Mine is on a smokless rem. rolloing block. I like the rcbs 515 gr. bullets best> I keep telling my selfe that I am going to by swage dies in this caliber. Have fun dreaming it is how I started. P.S. these bullets don't expand on stray hpuse cats it anchers them but is not nessarly instant death

Rob,

My local video store did not have a copy of "Quigley down under" They had never heard of it.

Oddball it will be a reasonable amount of time until I get one of these Bison Rifles, as my .585 cost has blown out quite a bit. Thanks any way. If this round was on a Ruger #1 it would be extremely powerful then ???

PC, you can probably download it off the net; try one of the P to P programs and search for "Quigley Down Under-Video". - Dan

Oh, just as an aside, Tom Selleck is up here filming another duster. A friend of mine works in the industry supplying guns for the mivies and wrangling them, he's working on the movie right now. I don't know the name of it, but I'll ask him when he gets back in town. - Dan

Holmes before I take you up on your offer I will check some other stores first. Thanks for the offer, i'll get back to you.

My next project gun will be taking a #1H and having the barrel rebored to a.510 dia. and have it rechambered to the 50\3 1/4". I then will be using 500 nitro data and probably shoot some of my currant loads.

The .50/140/750 was the BIGGEST of the black powder .50 caliber rounds, BUT, it was introduced AFTER most of the bison were dead, so it played no significant role in that horrific slaughter.

HI,
DAN BELISLE, sorry I did not get to you sooner, the twist rate on my 50-110 with be 1;26 out of a badger barrel. Kev

Now we are talking about those I love the most,the largest Buff round was the 50-110 in the Winchester 86,there where two versions the express and the standard,the 50-140 didn't realy see any use in the field as it was not made up until after Sharpes had passed on.The most used would be either the 50-70 or 50-90 in the Rolling blocks then Sharpes and then the Trapdoors,there were a few of the 40 caliber rounds used also to good ends,in the 45 it was the 45-120 that was the king and took several buff,most of the Pros like to paper patch their slugs,but on a big stand if thet were reloading as they went they used just slightly under sized slugs to help keep the flouing down.The best replicas made today are here in then U.S.,i.e.C.Sharpes Arms/Ballard/Lone Starr/and others

Well Im not to sure about what firearm it was in but there is a .950 caliber that is pushing a 3600 grain bullet at 1800-1900 fps. If you want to see it there is a picture of it at: www.sskindustries.com