jwp475,
Thanks for the input of your experience.
I'll test the cast bullet like the softs, in water only.

Smacking water at 2200 fps is a severe enough test to get expansion of any game-worthy softpoint. 5-gallon waterbuckets end-to-end will do for that.

However, just for giggles, I will test the cast bullets alongside the solids in the IWBB also, to see if they can possibly maintain integrity under WaterBoard Interrogation Stress.

quote:

WaterBoard Interrogation Stress.

Waterboard Interrogation Test - WIS!

Give those bullets the WIS test.

Waterboard Interrogation Ztress: WIZ Test

RIP,
I salute your ingenuity!
This should really let us know (as if we haven't already surmised) what is going to do what in your test rig. By the way, do you have any of those Hornady cup-and-core 300 grainers? Not that I expect them to do anything great, just wondered how they will do. I intend to try them on mule deer this fall.

Insulting the noble Mule Deer again? No more Velo-SHarks that might be recovered for photographic purposes?

Shame on you Max for seeking self agrandizement of the B-Max Proprietary Line of bullets!

I'm getting an inferiority complex here - Max has his own catridge and bullet named after him.

quote:

I'm getting an inferiority complex here - Max has his own catridge and bullet named after him.

I dunno.
After all, your avatar is a Tasmanian Devil. You've developed a bullet for the .666 Teufel. Teufel is German for "devil." Ergo...
hey, you've practically got a whole caliber named after you, or at least after your avatar.

Aww, gorsh, jeez, fellers. Here I is in da mowtanes of Koleraido, and youse is runnin' me down.
Seriously, two of us will be using Macifej bullets for elk this year. If I luck out and draw two doe permits, I might shoot one with the cast lead bullet in the NitroExpress and the other with the 300gr B-Max bullet! Got a grandson who states he'd be willing to test the Macifej bullet in either the .395Max or the 400/.395 NE if I'll take him along and buy his license. Very generous of him, don't you think?

Any word on the WIZ testing?

Loaded some ammo but did not get the IWBB set up yet. It is on the agenda.
Gotta do some bushhogging to get the IWBB set up in the new secluded waterboarding site. A lot of blackberry and honeysuckle must fall ...

Interesting data on the .450/400. I am thinking about loads for my soon to be complete, hopefully, 10.75x68. With 400gr bullets, they appear to be ballistic twins, or at least, pretty close. For those of you that have hunted with both, how would compare them? Ray, I believe you have had considerable experience loading for and hunting with the 10.75 Mauser. What's your take? Thanks.

Yes, and the 400/.395NE easily beats that at less than 50Kpsi and a modern double rifle will easily handle that, and a Ruger No.1 will handle more than that from my pipsqueak cartridge with little recoil from a 7.5# rifle.

With modern guns it is not necessary to stay down in the 30K to 40K psi range, as Hornady is loading for the antiques.

Since there never was a 400 NE 3" until now, there will be no jeopardy.

Firing my 400/395NE loads in a 400 Purdey 3" with its .405-caliber bastardized barrel will be possible, but it will be a non-event.

There do not seem to be any 400 Nitro For Black Powder 3" rifles left on planet earth. Those had .395 barrels. So the world is safe! That is why the True 400 NE needed birthing for the first time.

BTW, the 400/395NE fireformed from Hornady 9.3x74R brass comes out only about 2.900" long.

It has a gross water capacity of 88.6 grains.
Qual Cart brass with proper headstamp will be a bit longer, somewhere between 2.940" and 3.000".

1. S&H Brass .395/330-grain FN ~ 2400 fps
2. GSC Copper .395/340-grain FN ~ 2400 fps
3. LBT Rippalloy .396/410-grain LFNGC water-dropped and ~ 2200 fps
4. LBT heat-treat-harden ~2200 fps

I'll be trying them in the IWBB, before the blackberries ripen.

The hardness of the brass and slightly smaller meplat of the S&H super-penetrating FN, could possibly give it an advantage, but the GSC has a 10-grain weight/sectional density advantage.

Also, to see if the heat-treat-hardening gives penetration advantage to cast lead will be interesting.

quote:

blackberries ripe

Hunh!?!?!? Sniff sniff did someone say Blackberries? Wild Blackberries??

Watch out for Vad Fekete Medvek when you see Vad Fekete Afonyak....

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

Watch out for Vad Fekete Medvek when you see Vad Fekete Afonyak....

Hungarian riddles?
I have enough trouble with English!
Please translate and I will send you a bottle of blackberry wine, vintage 2008!

Translation:

Watch out for Wild Black Bears when you see Wild Black Berries!!

Would love to have some of that Wine!! I remember my great-grandmother made Cherry Bounce but I was too young to drink at the time.

I just got TWO bottles of Killepitsch today!! YeeeHaw!! I'd been out for quite some time. It also has lots of berries in the mix.

Has the honeysuckle fallen, so the Iron Buffal; can take his place in the field?

I suspect RIP is out in the bush working on the IWB today...

Macifej,
There are very few black bears left in KY. They sneak in from the Smokies occasionally, or escape from traveling carnival shows. Ticks and chiggers are much more worrisome amongst the blackberries.

jwp475,
I have been too busy with work to play as much as I would like. I have felled the honeysuckle and blackberry briars to make a path to the IWBB pasture. I hope to truck that buffalo over to the hideout next weekend and waterboarding of those bullets will soon commence. The blackberries ain't ripe yet.

I have completed the chrongraph data on loads to be used. I will be using the old .395 Tatanka loads with GSC and S&H bullets. I have loads for cast bullets and S&H bullets in the 400/395 Nitro Express. Elvira was in good form today:



Here are some good performers so far at 50-yard chrono-target-load-development, 5X Leupold, Ruger No.1:

Hornady brass, GM215M primer, all with RL-15, the star performer in the 400/395NE at 90 degrees F today:

S&H Brass SHark Velopex 310-grainer (fastest was most accurate today):
61.0 grains: 2363.7 fps
62.0 grains: 2419.3 fps
63.0 grains: 2458.0 fps
64.0 grains: 2494.7 fps : 0.340" 3-shot @ 50 yards


S&H Brass FN 330-grainer (almost as fast and accurate):
61.0 grains: 2364.7
62.0 grains: 2408.0 fps (most accurate)
63.0 grains: 2438.7 fps
64.0 grains: 2471.7 fps


410-grain gas-checked cast lead LBT LFN (as a velocity control to compare to previous, not necessarily most accurate load):
62.0 grains: 2215.7 fps


More to come.

I want to compare the explosive SHark Velopex to the LBT for penetration and straightness of course in water buckets.

I want to compare the Brass S&H FN 330-grainer to the Copper GSC FN 340-grainer via waterboarding.

Modernizing the "Righteous Four Hundred Nitro Express," AKA 400/395 Nitro Express, with a monometal FN of SD just over .300 will make it a better penetrator than all the "Pretenders" for sure.

Six-pointed Death Star SHark Velopex loads will be interesting for anything from varmints to buffalo ... if they flip over fast enough and track true, base first after the explosion.

Will be interesting to see if it's turning around or not depending on the medium. A test in a solid medium may offer some insight.

It appears the long awaited results are only a short time away. It's like the monkey said when the train ran over his tail "it won't be long now".

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Will be interesting to see if it's turning around or not depending on the medium. A test in a solid medium may offer some insight.

Since Max had an exit on the cow elk, and no report of squirrely course change of the SHark Velopex, I think it flipped over and proceeded out the offside base first ... after releasing the six-rayed Brass Star of Death into the chest cavity.

Roundnose Woodleigh FMJ's and old roundnose Barnes brass solids cannot stay on course in the IWBB or plain 5-gallon buckets of water in train end-to-end.

Water is the ultimately simple and ultimately uniform medium for softpoints. The faster the bullet, the harder the water, exponentially. Nothing more is needed.

However, Macifej is welcome to bring tons of animal scrap, guts, bones, meat and hide to fill the buckets of the IWBB with instead of water, even though the consistency of that medium will never be repeatable for more than one shot.

quote:

proceeded out the offside base first

Ass-Reversal-Auto-Stabilization.....hmmmm

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Will be interesting to see if it's turning around or not depending on the medium. A test in a solid medium may offer some insight.

Since Max had an exit on the cow elk, and no report of squirrely course change of the SHark Velopex, I think it flipped over and proceeded out the offside base first ... after releasing the six-rayed Brass Star of Death into the chest cavity.

Roundnose Woodleigh FMJ's and old roundnose Barnes brass solids cannot stay on course in the IWBB or plain 5-gallon buckets of water in train end-to-end.

Water is the ultimately simple and ultimately uniform medium for softpoints. The faster the bullet, the harder the water, exponentially. Nothing more is needed.

However, Macifej is welcome to bring tons of animal scrap, guts, bones, meat and hide to fill the buckets of the IWBB with instead of water, even though the consistency of that medium will never be repeatable for more than one shot.

I have never seen a round nose solid whether from a rifle or a handgun not turn over when shot into test medium. I agree 100% with RIP on this.

We'll be trying the S&H bullet again this year. Two of us will be using our .395 Max's. May try to get the third member of our party to use one of them, also.
My Ruger #1 is at the gunsmith's to be converted. He has the reamers, etc. Told me, though, that he has 16 barreling jobs ahead of mine.

Macifej, is making some of in not the finest solids available today IMHO

I could forsake copper hollowpoints if the "Brass SHark Velopex" stays in a straight line after the flip in water. This may be the latest cutting edge new tech bullet.

The British Velopex had a wooden nose under the cap then later hollow capped, designed to tumble. see Alf's previous posts.

The SHark has a big hollowpoint and the nose breaks off in six big brass slivers, leaving a jagged/irregular leading surface that will immediately cause the flip, ass over teakettle, even more pronouncedly than the wobbly roundnoses.

The SHark should then be terrific with FN truncated cone base (boattail) and reversed SHark gills cutting along after the flip: Big wound channel right after entry then straight out the off side to bleed out.

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
Macifej, is making ... the finest solids available today IMHO

Agree!
And this thread will be a whole lot better than shootaway's "Special Olympics Rifle Team" thread, or pontificating about the .458WinMag ad nauseum.

My .395 Ruger Max is with the smith.

Redding is dragging feet on making .398 Lapua Mag dies, not to mention the 500 Mbogo with the smith since long ago. Work in progress, any day now.

This stuff is as much fun as anything, but it will be done soon and then I must commence to killing things on .395 Safari's also.

Hopefully Max will beat me back to Africa.

.395 VeloSHark on Buffalo.....no problem.

Maybe someone should put together a .395" only Safari Team. Bring whatever you want as long as your barrel has a .395" Groove.

RIP,
How's this for a Boddington idea...
We have us .395 owners go on a safari sponsored by S&H bullets? Maybe even get a certain barrel maker to help out?
No, no, no need to thank me. Macifej will get so many orders for his bullets, he'll have to go on safari someday, himself.

Here's an idea!! You guys buy/sell about 250,000 bullets and then I could afford to go with you. FYI - I'm not much of a camper so you'll need to provide an air-conditioned Rickshaw if you want me to be out scouting game.

By the time you guys get that thing organized I'll have a .395" Bolt gun of sorts and a nifty new super-stopper too!!

Max,
The new McGowen Precision Barrels,LLC firm has turned out some great, barrels for the 400/395NE's, eh? Yours and mine, Lillie and Elvira. My .395 Ruger Max will have the same contour (Douglas no.4) shortened to 24". My .395 Tatanka and .398 Lapua Mag. have what must have been the last barrels Harry McGowen and Son made before selling the business to MPB,LLC. Those two are the heavy GSC contour, custom profile. They are good ones too, accurate and non-fouling.

Be sure to take your time with that 400/395NE reamer and gages and get it back to me by the time it is needed for my Searcy double rifle ... not soon.

Keep us posted on any .395 hunts, whether Colorado or Namibia. Is there room for a third hunter on any of them? I would see to autopsy/necropsy photographs of any game slain with .395 bullets, whether B-Max, GSC, or S&H.

Macifej,
News Flash: The S&H .395/310-grain Tangent-Ogive-Boat-Tail-Hollow-Point-Brass bullet has been renamed by yours truly.

SHark VeloHEX is the new designation.

Several reasons for getting away from the old British "Velopex" copycat moniker: HEX refers to the hexagonal shape of the hollowpoint cavity and the six-pointed "Star of Death" that it creates. Also, the VeloHEX puts a hex on any game it is pointed at.

Also, the "SHark VeloHEX" mechanism of rapid tumble is very different from that of "Ye Olde Velopex," and deserves distinction.

Those old Velopex bullets would not "superpenetrate" like the SHark VeloHEX will, after an initial explosive entry and huge wound channel, from the six-rayed star and the rapid tumble to flat-ass stabilizer.

That should be a very interesting permanent wound channel in ordnance gelatin or live/expiring game.

I've got a hundred of the water containers for starters ...

... to test this and more:
SHark VeloHEX

How about an aluminum point insert with a round shaft to be a tight press fit into the hexagonal hollowpoint?
With your precision machining, I am sure you could pull it off.

With all the plastic point inserts out now, seeming to have no deleterious effect on accuracy of various makers' bullets (Hornady, Nosler, Barnes, etc.), maybe a ready-made molded plastic tip could be found for testing of a "SHark VeloHEX Ballistic Tip."

SHark VeloTIP ...

Shar-Hex-Velt.....sounds Yiddish.

Maybe they should be 18K gold with a diamond tip? That would still be cheaper than that proprietary alloy for those .458's.

I'd be happy to make a batch of low weight retention composite super-penetrating death grenades in .395". Given that Max's elk had it's interior vaporized there could possibly be an application for Buff scramble or Jumbo scramble too!!

The GOLD of a brass hollowpoint with a SILVER tip of aluminum alloy would be rich enough for me.

Machinability and precision is better than with copper, eh?

I hear there is four cents worth of copper in a penny nowadays.

I have a feeling that the SHilvertip VeloHex will set new standards in lethality and accuracy at close range and long range.

Trying to keep from setting any new standards in cost too!!

RIP,
Your reamers are being handled with extreme care. My 'smith knows the reamers are yours, not mine. (If mine, he might try and chamber a piece of carbide!)
Although it might (might?) be overkill, my son suggested I take an antelope with the .395 Max. I mentioned taking an antelope with the soon-to-be Lilly in 400/.395 NE, but my gunsmith reminded me of the 16 other barrel jobs ahead of mine. Bummer.

Max,
Get autopsy photos, please.

My hunting buddy is a photo hobbyist and will be taking all the shots. I know he's much better than I am in skill and equipment (photo only) . Should have sufficient animals and shots to show what does what.
Max