Just came back from the gunstore (well, one of them!) where I had the rare opportunity to lay my hands on a unused CZ Safari Classic in .404 Jeffery. I didn't even know they make it in that caliber!

The gun had a split stock (although apparently never fired): there was a hairline crack from the tang down, and on the belly side there was a wide crack along the forarm of the gun, continuing next to the action down the pistol grip.
What may have caused this? Dry air?

The gun also had no recoil bolts.
Now, on CZ's website you can clearly see the recoil bolts on the Safari Classics model line. They are even featured on the "lesser" Magnum models.
Has anyone else come across this on a CZ Safari Magnum?

I have also heard that the guns (or at least the lesser models) did develop cracks behind the tang in .416 Rigby and larger; not so on the .375 H&H.
Any truth to this at all?

Given the price of the gun I think it's a walk-away. I never really understood the high proces of the Safari Classic line: you can have a new Ruger for half the price!
And it's almost three times the price a usual magnum CZ.
What seems to be the perception here - worth the extra money or not?
Had this gun been one of the normal magnums and has the dealer offered me an equally substantial discount as he did now due to the split stock, I would have bought the gun as it would have made a perfect bed for a very usable safari rifle. But at this price; forget it!

Finally: What's the magazine capacity of the gun? The brochure quotes 3-5 but as there were no details regarding the .404 in the user manual (!) I was not able to find out.

- Lars/Finland

I'm far from an expert on CZ's, but if memory serves me correctly the early models didn't have crossbolts and many had cracking problems. Odd that it would occur on an unfired rifle. All the later models have dual crossbolts. If you could get the rifle at the right price, you could buy it and send it off to AHR for their upgrades and have a wonderful rifle. The dealer should be offering a substantial reduction in price since you will have to restock the rifle. Show him what a new stock will cost and make an appropriate offer. If he won't budge, move on.

Another possible option would be to buy the gun as is and have a wood wizard fix the stock, bed the action, and install crossbolts. Again, this would only work if the gun were priced right. Finally, you could contact CZ and see how much they want to restock the rifle.

Good luck, but it sounds like you're dealing with a guy who wants new gun money for a damaged firearm.

Buy it cheap and then stick it in one of CZ's synthethic stocks for the 550 Magnum. That would be quite a nice package.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Buy it cheap and then stick it in one of CZ's synthethic stocks for the 550 Magnum. That would be quite a nice package.

Ditto.

Obviously it's an older gun before the cross bolts. It may have cracked during test firing or it's not new as claimed. How could one tell anyway?

Labman, in the many discussions on the forum the concensus was that for a 375H&H or bigger the stock should be fully glass bedded and there should be crossbolts.
The early CZs did have problems so they added crossbolts.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

Obviously it's an older gun before the cross bolts. It may have cracked during test firing or it's not new as claimed. How could one tell anyway?

It's control stamped i.e. imported in 2006.

You could fairly clearly see that the gun was unused in it's original box. For sure; some shots may have been fired explaining the cracked stock but it did look plain new with a lot of the small styrofoam balls all over the piece.

- Lars/Finland

I also have an early CZ safari classic in 404J. It did not have cross bolts. When I contacted CZ they confirmed that they are now installing cross bolts, but they weren't necessary. I did send mine to their custom house, triple river I believe, and they installed cross bolts for about $80 and returned it to me in one week, exceptional service. I have used the rifle, actually used it in Africa before I had cross bolts installed, and am very happy with it. I believe that the fit and finish of the safari classic models far exceeds that of their standard models. Many here have stated that a standard CZ needs to be sent off to AHR, for example, to be cleaned up. I do not believe that this is the case in the safari classic model. Firing rounds loaded to shoot a 400 gr bullet at 2180 fps, I have had no problem with the stock cracking. Now that it is cross bolted I don't think that is an issue.
As to it's price relative to a ruger, you pay your price and you make your choice. If you think that ruger is a better value than buy a ruger.
The CZ will take 5 in the magazine.

I bought a field grade Rigby that came with no crossbolts. I called CZ in Kansas and informed them I felt it needed crossbolts. They said to send it to them and they installed them at no charge, other than shipping to to Ks. No problems now.

quote:

The CZ will take 5 in the magazine.

Really? I didn't think five 404's would fit. Good to know.

I am in Prague this week on busines and just came from the CZ main store. I called ahead last week to make sure they were going to be open and its a good thing I did as they will be closed all next week for holiday!

I specifically wanted to see/handle the safari magnums to get a feel for them before I part with any money. Though they staff were kind and apologetic, I could not actually handle the gun unless I had a Czech gun license! I had brought my UK firearms license but that was not good enough.

I think the guys in the store were more comfortable with handguns and varmint rifles than the big 'uns. I seemed to know more about their guns than they did. Oh well. I was hoping that if I liked something enough I might buy it, go home and get it put on my certificate. Then it would be a short hop back and bring it home to the UK with me. They are MUCH cheaper here in Czech than through a dealer, as you can well imagine.

The only model available here is the euro version with the bavarian hogs back stock and slight schnabel fore end. I asked about the straight stocked American version with the twin cross bolts and barrel band. The guy told me had only seen that version in the catalogue. Besides, he said, it only needed the one bolt anyway. He also started mumbling a bit when I asked if it was available in .404J...

I also got a chance to look over (but not actually touch) the BRNO Stopper O/U double rifle. The one they had in the case was a .458 Lott. Seemed like a nice gun. Three times the price though. About 4 thousand US. The clerk said it was because it was a limited production model and so few are made. I really would have like to have a chance to mount and swing that gun to see what it feels like!

The staff were very friendly and as helpful as they could, though there was a bit of a language barrier. Czech's are generally very good at English (like a million times better than my Czech!) but gun speak is not the same as tourist speak, if you know what I mean. I was a little disappointed to not be able to actually handle the rifles. Still, it was nice to be in a room full of well made guns!

Ps. The english catalogue they just gave me states the .404J only holds 4 rounds. Maybe the US version has a bigger well??

quote:

Originally posted by Schauckis:
Given the price of the gun I think it's a walk-away. I never really understood the high proces of the Safari Classic line: you can have a new Ruger for half the price!
And it's almost three times the price a usual magnum CZ.

- Lars/Finland

It really all depends on price with this rifle. If it's not discounted significantly, there are better options for less money.

I don't know how hard it would be to import a rifle from the USA with all the beurocratic red tape for import/export and taxes across national borders but, American Hunting Rifles can deliver a rifle for similar (depending on specific options and starting points) money to the premium CZ factory offerings.

http://www.hunting-rifles.com/CZ/CZowners.htm

The CZ-USA factory store essentially custom builds a rifle each time one of these are purchased. When I shopped AHR versus CZ-USA, I got a custom build sheet from the CZ custom shop that specified every single detail. After seeing the AHR rifles in person, I knew I would spend my money on CZ rifle there.

Since you are in Europe, I would think that there would be a lot of premium bolt actions from all the big names within financial reach of the CZ rifle you are looking at. Have you considered Mauser, Sako, etc. in your rifle searches?

Thanks for your kind and helpful post, Sid!

I have not so much "considered" as "been shopping around" and seeing what comes up from time to time. E.g. this CZ came up since I asked about safari rifles: the gun was not catalogued at all.
Make is less of importance to me, also is caliber. It's about fit of the gun and value for money.
As I consider a used gun the best option, few new ones would offer the value for money I'm looking at - unless it's a special deal like a Sako Brown Bear/Kodiak or like sold at a discount as "demonstator" rifle. Better yet: a bankruptcy estate or a gundealer that is ceasing business.

As an example, the list price of the CZ is approx. 3400€ - I spotted a little used custom Mauser M/98 in .416 Rem.mag scoped with a Zeiss on Apel swing mounts + dies & cases for 2000€. Guess which one I consider to be more interesting?

Fact is, these are farily rare over here at the endo of the day. On the upside, we're just next door to Sweden where the supply is ample. The semi-annual auction by Widforss often offers real gems at ridiculous bargain prices.

So I'll keep looking. The main purpose of this thread was in fact to gather some more inf on the CZ Safari Classic as such.
Thank you all for your input!

- Lars/Finland

Lars, the new euro spec .416 Rigby safari magnum I saw today was 1400 US dollars out the door. Maybe you need an EasyJet flight to Prague!

Will,
You have not been paying attention. I have been posting pictures of that CZ 404 Jeffery since 2006,
and pointing out that it easily holds 5 down in the box.
There is still about 1/8" compression of the magazine spring left with 5 in the box.
You can easily close the bolt on 5 down, and do the "Mauser Pinch" to load one in the chamber, thus getting a 6-shooter.
It worked that way even when it was in the "Fat American Black Walnut" stock with bottom metal recessed into the wood.
Still works that way in the CZ Kevlar stock, with bottom metal flush to the beautiful, slim, indestructible synthetic stock:

Walnut, 404 Jeffery top, .505 Gibbs bottom.
Getting the bottom metal flush with wood/not recessed was only achieved by glass & pillar bedding:



404 Jeffery (5-down, 6-shooter) in Kevlar:



.416 Rigby (4-down, 5-shooter) in Kevlar:





I got one of the first edition CZ 404 Jeffery rifles, along with a .505 Gibbs, in 2006.
They had no crossbolts.
I had a gunsmith install them.
The 404 Jeffery stock cracked off at the grip.
The .505 Gibbs seems to have better grain layout, it has held.

CZ offered to replace my broken wood stock for free. I asked for the Kevlar stock made by B&C with full aluminum "endoskeleton" instead, for free.
The other two I have cost about $450.
They will shoot sub-MOA for three shots at 100 yards as a drop-in.
Glass bedding could only improve it.

If the .505 Gibbs ever breaks, it will be made to fit into a synthetic stock too.

Switching from Fat American to Kevlar stock takes about 1/2 pound off the dry weight of the rifle.
Another improvement.