It is time to to reduce the recoil level of your rifles when it becomes no longer fun, no matter what your age is!

You can slso ask Will. He is an expert in this matter.

465H&H

At the young age of 45 I still don't feel the need to reduce recoil. I guess I sort of enjoy recoil.
We will see how I feel about it when I turn 80.

But I feel the need to step down in boom(noise) because my hearing is getting a lot worse because of all the shooting on hunts.

Because of this I have put silencers on some guns and often use some sort of hearing protection when hunting with the others.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
It is time to to reduce the recoil level of your rifles when it becomes no longer fun, no matter what your age is!

465H&H

This I will totally agree with...

Load em up or load em down. Thats the beauty of big bores. It will still get the job done, because by 65 you either know how and where to shoot or you gave up the hobby l;ong ago anyway. I think ol Ray who is older than dirt still shoots his 577 double from time to time. Thats my goal too, although Ray has decades on me!-Rob

I shot my first really big bore, a 450 Watts in 1952. I thought the recoil was horrible then and here 61 years later I still think it is. A 9# 257 Roberts is about right for me and always has been and I feel the recoil from that. Pain is a personal thing and I think different for everyone. The limits are NOT merely psychological. I've had arthritis all my adult life and any day without pain in some joint is truly an unusual one. I would think pain levels are different for each person. The pain does not stop me from shooting but I strictly limit it to sighting in on the thumpers. I have not found this to be a problem. I never feel the recoil in the field at all. I went on the first of my 8 safaris at age 63 and fully enjoyed it as I did on all of them. Biggest gun used in Africa was my 470 Merkel. Normal gun used was a 375H&H or a 416Rigby. Having spent so many of my years with arthritis and having experienced the pain passing kidney stones 3 times I think I am on familiar terms with pain. Of course I think a real, macho man, - as most on here must be and I definitely am not - are to be greatly admired for their great tolerance to pain I have grave doubts to some of their honesty when discussing recoil.

I don't shoot or cull just for the sake of to make a hole or just to kill something.

If the rifle has not have at least 100fp. of recoil to go with it, than I have no interest shooting it.

Pyzda

zimbabwe wrote

quote:

. . . I never feel the recoil in the field at all. I went on the first of my 8 safaris at age 63 and fully enjoyed it as I did on all of them. Biggest gun used in Africa was my 470 Merkel. Normal gun used was a 375H&H or a 416Rigby. Having spent so many of my years with arthritis and having experienced the pain passing kidney stones 3 times I think I am on familiar terms with pain. Of course I think a real, macho man, - as most on here must be and I definitely am not - are to be greatly admired for their great tolerance to pain I have grave doubts to some of their honesty when discussing recoil.

The trick is to get as close to possible to the conditions where "I never feel the recoil in the field at all." Of course, as pictured in the previous page, that can sometimes result in bruising and it may result in a limited number of shots at the bench. On a hunt, one is usually limited to 1 to 6 shots per day.

In any case it is encouraging to hear that even with arthritis you can shoot 416's and 470's on a need to hunt basis. We wish you more painless days.

quote:

Originally posted by Pyzda:

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
I've been listening to comments on Medium and Small Bore forums and I hear references to people getting on in years and wanting a softer shove from their rifles.

OK, I understand injury and repair, but is there an age where people should expect to step down from a 500 to a 458 or 416 or smaller?

Only when on a death bed.

Pyzda

lol! I stepped up from a 270 to a 375 H&H at 55 and up to a 500 Jeffery at 58 ...

I'm 57 years old and still as recoil savvy as I was in my teen's, although all I had at age 15 was a 270 win. Recoil is like boxing, some can take a punch and others can't, everyone has a recoil level if they are honest with themselves and start looking at accuracy loss with recoil gain. But even the boxers who can take a punch if they over the years keep taking over and over those heavy punches it has a terminal effect, so it is IMO with recoil and accuracy of shooter.

I have over the years always down loaded my big bores to practice with 100's of times and shoot a few full loads. Save your mind from developing a flinch from hell it has a wonderful memory and save your shoulder in the process. Of course if you only shoot your rifles a couple of dozen times a year it doesn't much matter and shame on you as a hunter.

I've owned shot and hunted Africa with a 10lb 4oz 500NE that I shot well, but as others will attest the fit of a rifle is the majority of recoil problems. I now shoot a 8 lb 3oz 458 win mag that I shoot well and fits me like a glove. I have a practice load with 405 Rem bullets that will shoot same POI as 500g bullets so shooting it 15-20 times a session is painless. So I don't plan on handing this rifle over to my son till I'm 70+ years, he's kinda bummed about that.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
It is time to to reduce the recoil level of your rifles when it becomes no longer fun, no matter what your age is!

You can slso ask Will. He is an expert in this matter.

465H&H

I have to also agree with 465 H&H in this. Recoil tolerance is a very personal thing and some find even mild recoilers uncomfortable. I've shot with fellows who found 270's a bit much. Others I've shot with seem virtually impervious to recoil.

I find at 53 I'm more recoil tolerant than I was 25 years ago. I credit that to experience and time behind the gun when it comes to big bores.

When I get to where it's not fun to shoot the big ones, I'll step down to some lighter recoiling rounds.

Mart

I still shoot the big bores when I build one, and the recoil is not a problem as to age other than you may bruise easier from blood thinners etc, or bursitas is a given if you shoot the real big ones too much, but brusing doesn't kill and Recoil has never killed anyone as far as I know. IMO recoil is mostly a mind game..but I never liked bigger calibers in the first place being perfectly content with a 416 or 404 for even for elephant..

I don't think age for the most part and depending on your health etc is a player. I think one should shoot what he is "comfortable" with at any age..being overgunned is ridiculas but being undergunned is just as bad in some cases, especially in the case of DG...I'm 78 or 79, can't remember!

I've found a long time ago that I can't shoot small calibres, nor I ever want to.

On a rare occasion, if I have a shot from someone elses rifle, usually the 30-06 whereabouts class I simply can't shoot it accurately.

I put it down to, that if there is not a recoil to feel I just get too (casual) sloppy and un-interested and it shows.

If there are any doubts to be corrected about my shooting abilities I have to shoot my .460Wea. to do so.

Pyzda

quote:

Originally posted by Pyzda:
I've found a long time ago that I can't shoot small calibres, nor I ever want to.

On a rare occasion, if I have a shot from someone elses rifle, usually the 30-06 whereabouts class I simply can't shoot it accurately.

I put it down to, that if there is not a recoil to feel I just get too (casual) sloppy and un-interested and it shows.

If there are any doubts to be corrected about my shooting abilities I have to shoot my .460Wea. to do so.

Pyzda

So where does this occur?

This is what I like, blokes with age shooting big bores and stepping up in calibres wishing to shoot it until their last breath.

Unfortunately we are a tiny minority. It is the shear numbers of the city softcocks who shoot their .270W, 30-06 and can't handle the recoil, who are responsible that we have a drought of factory made large Mauser type actions and decent calibres.

In my opinion the ,585HE, 600 OK, 700 AHR etc. should be available in "Off The Shelf" factory rifles.

Pyzda

quote:

Originally posted by Pyzda:
This is what I like, blokes with age shooting big bores and stepping up in calibres wishing to shoot it until their last breath.

Unfortunately we are a tiny minority. It is the shear numbers of the city softcocks who shoot their .270W, 30-06 and can't handle the recoil, who are responsible that we have a drought of factory made large Mauser type actions and decent calibres.

In my opinion the ,585HE, 600 OK, 700 AHR etc. should be available in "Off The Shelf" factory rifles.

Pyzda

It has nothing to do with age. As one gets older, most of us get smarter, so we down size. Been there and done that, so it's no use visiting again.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
At 64 you may think you are on safari but the joke is on you.

Hope to hell this is an attempt at humor as some of us "old guys" (I am 71) taking you serious would not be pretty.

Will be carrying my 416 or 470 on my next buff hunt.

I'm 62 and am in the process of selling my 425 Express. One of the reasons is I carry my 358 Norma almost all the time and it more than enough for anything Alaska has to offer. Reason 2 is a few years ago my chest was opened up and the healing process was slow due to my boneheaded ways, I merely don't need a huge wallop anymore just for ha ha's!

quote:

I tend to use more than enough gun

Seems to be a common "problem"

quote:

Originally posted by ztreh:
It has nothing to do with age. As one gets older, most of us get smarter, so we down size. Been there and done that, so it's no use visiting again.

So is the 375 Ruger downsizing, or are we talking 7-08? There are good reasons for both.

I've taken a lot of African animals with small calibres like 222, 270, and 338, not to mention 375 and 416. A 7-08 for my wife has appealed from time to time, though she has ended up with a 270.
Now I'm 62 and building a 500AccRelNyati. I must be getting (1) younger, or (2) more responsible? We have these little "dinosaur cattle" in Africa, plus some stuff in the bushes that may not be on a license, but doesn't know it. Small calibres like 338 work on those cattle, so do 375, 416, and 458. I could add 303 and 30-06 from friends' experiences, but they have gotten people into too much trouble.

More is better, if you've seen an animal absorb lead and copper. Many PH's tend to grab the biggest gun they can put their hands on. Why is that?

I've seen enough of the differing effect on plains game between the 270 and 338 to know that I definitely prefer a 338 for an animal from hartebeest on up though I would gladly use a 270 if it was that in order to use a hunting opportunity. I think that this would apply to elk, too. The 270 is a great calibre, made even better with these fast mono-metal bullets. But I would prefer a 338 and wouldn't feel wasteful with an accurate 375 or 416. "Only accurate rifles are interesting."

quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:
I'm 62 and am in the process of selling my 425 Express. One of the reasons is I carry my 358 Norma almost all the time and it more than enough for anything Alaska has to offer. Reason 2 is a few years ago my chest was opened up and the healing process was slow due to my boneheaded ways, I merely don't need a huge wallop anymore just for ha ha's!

I tend to use more than enough gun

Nice, balanced calibre, I’ve always admired it. Its availability in NA probably got restricted by the success of the 338. The 358Norma would be a great calibre for Alaska, just about the right mix of power, diameter, and reach. And now they’re coming out with a 338 Norma (a .2" shorter Lapua). Both of those Norma’a sound like nice low-recoil, handle-everything kind of guns. Reasonable downsizing for post operative heart work. And still fun to shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by JBoutfishn:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
At 64 you may think you are on safari but the joke is on you.

Hope to hell this is an attempt at humor as some of us "old guys" (I am 71) taking you serious would not be pretty.

Will be carrying my 416 or 470 on my next buff hunt.

71 and going on safari is pretty good

quote:

Originally posted by Pyzda:
I've found a long time ago that I can't shoot small calibres, nor I ever want to.

On a rare occasion, if I have a shot from someone elses rifle, usually the 30-06 whereabouts class I simply can't shoot it accurately.

I put it down to, that if there is not a recoil to feel I just get too (casual) sloppy and un-interested and it shows.

If there are any doubts to be corrected about my shooting abilities I have to shoot my .460Wea. to do so.

Pyzda

Quite an incredible assertion.

Just out of curiosity...is there some particular level of recoil, in foot-pounds, at which this lackadaisical shift towards poor shooting occurs all at once, or is it a gradual declining scale? I mean, does your shooting go to hell abruptly when you pass the magical "not-enough-recoil" point, or does it just get progressively worse and worse as you move down the caliber range? What happens if someone hands you a .22lr...do you just pass out from boredom before you even get it to your shoulder?

I hate the recoil from my big bores but they sure do get the job done when it comes to killing. Ross

To answer the original question, at about the age you have to sit down to take a piss.

George

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
To answer the original question, at about the age you have to sit down to take a piss.

George

I'm not quite certain that I know exactly what this means...and I think I like that!

Jwm

I never really took any notice what recoil level, but I know that when I have a rare shot from someones rifle I'm not able to duplicate the rifle potential.

Now in 32 years I virtually used only two calibres loaded to the maximum (.460Wea. and .375 H&H) for all my hunting/culling.

I've always shot the .460Wea's. better that the .375H&H's.

When sighting I've shot both these calibres well under 1" MOA at 100 yards on many occasions from far less than perfect rest.

I can't do that with a 17.Remington even if the rifle owner is able to shoot it into .3" MOA.

Pyzda

I am only 51, but after years of shooting heavy loads,in rifles and hand guns, arthritis is getting worse in both hands. Still enjoy the big stuff but don't shoot as often as I used too with really hot heavy loads.

It's a proven fact--not subject to any debate whatsoever--that humans can shoot a lighter recoiling rifle more accurately than a heavier recoiling one. Further (not the same thing) it will flinch less. At what point does this more than make up for less killing power?

I have noticed no more aversion to recoil than when I was young (I'm 68). However, my .458 developed a problem several days before my last safari so I shot all the big stuff with a .375 and 300 grain bullets. I noticed no decrease in killing power compared with the .458 on an earlier trip and will probably take the .375 if I go again.

quote:

Originally posted by Indy:
It's a proven fact--not subject to any debate whatsoever--that humans can shoot a lighter recoiling rifle more accurately than a heavier recoiling one. Further (not the same thing) it will flinch less. At what point does this more than make up for less killing power?

I have noticed no more aversion to recoil than when I was young (I'm 68). However, my .458 developed a problem several days before my last safari so I shot all the big stuff with a .375 and 300 grain bullets. I noticed no decrease in killing power compared with the .458 on an earlier trip and will probably take the .375 if I go again.

When does the accuracy of a lighter calibre make a difference?
1. It depends on the distances being shot.
2. And it depends on the cartridge being substituted.
(3. It depends on the amount of accuracy that a lighter calibre can bring. I doubt if it is more than 1/4MOA in practiced hands. Since I don't have data on this, I'll discuss the first two points which are interrelated to this.)

On #1, for me. at a distance of 50 yards I could tolerate an extra MOA fairly easily, but at 100 yards I would start to become leary of adding an extra MOA to an equation. That would mean that instead of shooting, e.g., a 1" circle at 100 yards off of a very solid rest, I would end up shooting a 2" circle. For most hunting that is fine, but if shooting through branches or at a face, that becomes problematic. Add the instability of a rest and hunting conditions, a shot at a face must be passed up. Last October I weighed these and took a 70-yard shot on a buffalo face. (I had been waiting 10-15 minutes and that was the first shootable presentation. It was LONG time.) The buffalo dropped but the bullet went under the brain. Would a lighter cartridge have provided more accuracy? Probably not, since I shoot the 416 involved at 1 MOA and less. But would a lesser cartridge have dropped the buffalo with the same placement? I'll never get to know.

But moving out farther, at 200 and 300 yards I would not want a rifle to get beyond an extra .25 to .50 MOA difference. For me, that would be too much. This cuts another way, too. A .5 MOA difference can be caused by a difference in the inherent accuracy of a rifle. That means that at a distance of 200 to 400 yards I would want the most accurate rifle that I have available, assuming that it meets a minimum expectation of downrange energy. If I have a rifle that consistantly betters a larger rifle by 0.5 MOA, then that becomes the rifle of choice for over 200 yard shots.

Which brings up #2: it depends on the calibre.
I would not want to substitute a 270 Win for a 416 Rigby or 500 AccRel on a buffalo, even if it provided an extra MOA of accuracy. In such a situation, I would limit my larger rifle to 200 yards and would pick up the 270 for longer shots, which in the nature of things would also be non-dangerous game and capable of being taken by a 270 with good bullets. Even so, I have watched the reactions of many an animal taken with 27 and 30 calibre bullets versus 338 and 375. Larger is definitely better, if the rifles are comparably accurate. My next outing in Africa my allow me to choose between a 416 Rigby at 2800 fps and a 500 AccR at 2650. Since the 500 is not yet ready it is premature to discuss the accuracy difference between the guns. However, I would probably not bother to go through the hassle of importing the 500 to Africa unless it is MOA, or consistently five-shot 1.5-MOA. In those circumstances, I would use whichever rifle was in my hands for a long shot, say a 300-yard eland from a very steady rest. Since I do not currently have a 338 available, my light gun is limited to a 416Rigby. Hopefully, from comments on this thread, I can expect to keep using that calibre for a decade or two more. If someone brings me a 1/2MOA 375 Ruger, I'd use it for everything over 100 yards but would still go to an accurate 500 or 416 for buffalo.

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
To answer the original question, at about the age you have to sit down to take a piss.

George

I understand a ½ Viagra pill will take care of the wet toes. Don’t have the problem myself so have never tried it.

My most accurate centerfire was a .340 WBY (3/4" at 300 yards) Two 300 magnums: a 300 Win and a 300 WBY, both at 1/2" at a hundred (3-shot groups for those 3; a couple of .223's (sporters - 5 shot groups at 100 into 3/4 to 1"); a .25-06 MOA; several .45-70s MOA when I was careful; 9.3 X 62 sub MOA when I do my best; .458 Win Mag MOA with best loads.

So, generally speaking, when I practice and take my time with a good handload, most of my rifles will/would shoot 3 shots into MOA or less regardless of caliber. At 77 I'M not as good as I was at 57, or even 67!!

And, while I'm just now beginning to think more about recoil, I still have at least one in .458" that generates upwards of 82 ft-lbs of recoil. I don't shoot those loads anymore unless I have a "reason", but I'm familiar with loads on a regular basis from that rifle that make 55 to 62 ft-lbs.

Yeah, arthritis pain does make a difference but also concerns over hearing loss and eyesight! Those become THE most important considerations past a certain age, and that varies a lot from person to person.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

quote:

Originally posted by els:
I started backing down a bit when I had shot enough stuff to realized that you don't need 100 foot pounds of recoil to have a very effective rifle for anything out there.

on the other hand if you find recoil exhilarating and you like to challenge your self. good on you no matter how old you are.

els I was just scrolling down to say almost quote unquote what you did. I just personally don't have a desire for more recoil than a 458 WM can generate.

Mark