I would appreciate any feedback on the rifle I recently bought.
I got it at an absolute bargain and while I understand it is not best English quality by any stretch of the imagination some comments from a gunsmith, deflated my initial enthusiasm.
The barrel is rather worn however I am getting a half an inch grouping at 50m with open sites, right on point of aim. Loads are mild, 2300 fps with a 6mm bullet jump. 300gr.
His comments were that C & H had butchered standard length actions to fit the 375 H and H and that the work they had did left the action weak, vulnerable and potentially dangerous. As I mentioned the rifle has a well worn barrel indicating a fair amount of use.
There is absolutely no signs of stress on the lugs on the bolt or bolt face. Cases don't show any signs of stress either with head separation issues etc. Its light though. 3.7 kg and recoil from the bench is painful. C & H estimate that the rifle was built in the mid 40's.
Any thoughts, or feedback would be very much appreciated.

You should ask your smith to show you one single example of a failed C&H rifle.
Knowing he cannot do that, ask him to show you just where and how C&H "butchered" the action to fit the 375.
Post some pictures if you can. I doubt there is anything to worry about.

The "weak" opened up standard Mauser action saga or otherwise known by a more common name of internet fear mongering or simply internet BS!

If you shoot a early model H&H, Gibbs, Jeffery or C&H in 375 or even bigger not built on Mauser Magnum action you are shooting one and the same ! All opened up all "weakened" when compared to the original action but all proofed to be safe for use with spec ammo and I venture if found their way as a permanent resident of Africa used extensively without harm to the user.

In short bar a difference in name and perhaps fitments and finish there is no difference structurally between your Coggie and a original London best H&H! In fact I would argue your Coggie is likely a better gun than a post war H&H with it's aluminium bottom metal !

a 1926 Jeffery in 375 H&H. a very light gun for a 375, metal recoil pad basically the same gun as your Coggie


And as a afterthought ! FN built, sold and very much sought after a multitude of 375's on standard actions ! these rifles were very very popular in the 50's and 60's and are sought after by collectors

Your C&H Mauser .375 H&H rifle weight: 3.7 Kg = 8.14 lbs
And no doubt it balances on the front action screw and is as lively as The Dancing Queen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFrGuyw1V8s

That is not too light. Seems about perfect.
Walnut and blue, CRF, 3.7-Kg/8.14#, it does not get any better than that.
All the rest is alternative lifestyle for gunnuts.
Cowboy up!

Around here there is much moaning about a Winchester M70 .375 H&H that weighs 8.7 lbs.
That is too heavy?
Those folks need to cowboy up in a different way.
Hear are my tears for their fears:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OFOZQ6pMGo

And here is the extended mix for those who think they must get their NULA .375 H&H pushfeed below 6 pounds,
they need to cowboy up in more ways than one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VswHdHe017g

BTW, I attended a TFF concert at Red Rock, near Denver, CO, in/about September 2016.
Those geezers are still pretty good at music.
For "superfans" in 2014:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGPFmBbnsNM

February 2016: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyE74xcMBV4

THE FEW THE PROUD THE 395 FAMILY
Rip

Taking material out of the area that supports the lower locking lug does "weaken" the action. But the question is whether it weakens the action too much.

The standard practice for British gun makers when lengthening a Mauser was to extend the magazine both forward and backwards. By moving it backwards some they didn't need to take as much from the front of the action, the part that supports the bolt lugs.

Mainstream rifle companies sold rifles and actions opened for the H&H cartridges by removing material only from the front of the action. That's not the best practice but that's how it was done by FN, Interarms, and even today's Zastava.

Custom Mauser rifles were modified for long cartridges by countless gunsmiths worldwide using both methods but the prevailing method was and is to just take material from the front of the action.

Back to the question, "Does it weaken the action too much?" The simple answer is, if done well, a standard action can be opened for .375 H&H cartridges and it will remain more than strong enough for a lifetime of service. But notice I said, .375 H&H. Some people have encountered action strength problems when they tried to use such actions for big magnum cartridges that operate at higher pressures or have larger diameter cases. Roy Weatherby initially used lengthened Mauser actions for making some of his magnum rifles but he had to stop the practice.

It sounds like you have a wonderful rifle. You've had a gunsmith check it out. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot it and hunt with it.

I will gladly email pics if anybody interested. Haven't worked out the posting pic thing yet.

Snav,

Go to your Private Message (PM as they call it here), and I will give you an email address to send pics, attach to your email to me.
I'll post on Photobucket whenever I get them.

THE FEW THE PROUD THE 395 FAMILY
Rip

RIP - You're a good man for offering that.

My pleasure, to get a look at a Coggie.
Snav's pics seem to be cell phone pics at the shop counter.
I have rotated, cropped, and used auto correct on a couple to get the barrel markings more legible,
and to cut out some background clutter, and to enlarge some vertical views that get bigger when rotated 90-degrees.
No views of the muzzle or the butt were available, I did not crop those off.
So we cannot eyeball full-length view of rifle from this but proportions are otherwise heavenly, eh?
Barrel length and LOP in inches?
Muzzle diameter in inches?
Please?
As we know, the weight is 3.7 Kg or 8.14 #.















It does look like a kissin' cousin to Alf's Jeffery, same action, bolt-handle knob, etc.:



THE FEW THE PROUD THE 395 FAMILY
Rip

Thank you Sir!

I will try and get some better pictures with other info to you with your permission.

Happy to post as long as Photobucket allows it.
The "full monty" from muzzle to butt would dress up this thread nicely.

THE FEW THE PROUD THE 395 FAMILY
Rip

This is my C&H .375 takedown from 1926. Lots of class in these early British arms. (This rifle is still for sale).
Cal

Ok, here you go:
LOP - 13.9 in (355mm)
Barrel - 24 in
Muzzle - 2.1 in

The stock will get the Alkanet root/slacum oil hand rubbed finish at the end of the season.
Pictures on their way.

Nice.
Muzzle diameter is what?

quote:

Originally posted by Snav:
Ok, here you go:
LOP - 13.9 in (355mm)
Barrel - 24 in
Muzzle - 2.1 in

The stock will get the Alkanet root/slacum oil hand rubbed finish at the end of the season.
Pictures on their way.

THE FEW THE PROUD THE 395 FAMILY
Rip

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

BTW, I attended a TFF concert at Red Rock, near Denver, CO, in/about September 2016.
Those geezers are still pretty good at music.
For "superfans" in 2014:

Bands tend to step it up when at Red Rocks.
I can't recall ever seeing a show there that I was disappointed in.
Anybody coming through the Morrison/Golden/Denver area should stop and see it.

quote:

Originally posted by Huvius:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

BTW, I attended a TFF concert at Red Rock, near Denver, CO, in/about September 2016.
Those geezers are still pretty good at music.
For "superfans" in 2014:

Bands tend to step it up when at Red Rocks.
I can't recall ever seeing a show there that I was disappointed in.
Anybody coming through the Morrison/Golden/Denver area should stop and see it.

Great!
I visit my son near Denver whenever I can.
I'll be looking for a Red Rock concert again.
And my second skiing lesson after age 62,
and then there is that hang gliding I always wanted to try ...

THE FEW THE PROUD THE 395 FAMILY
Rip

I think my maths let me down on the muzzle diameter...
As mentioned my hand loads are very conservative, but would like to get to the 2450 fps range which seems to be about maximum for the powders we have available this side. I don't know how the guys get up to 2700 fps with the H and H.

Id find another smith, He is not very well informed, his problem is he read something into its history and expounded on it..

The C&H, was in fact a low cost trade rifle for the less well heeled of Africa., that said it does not mean it is a second rate firearm, in fact they are outstanding rifles IMO..I have owned several of them and sold them for about $3500 to $4500 and that was some 10 or more years ago..

I would love to have one in a .375..they are as good as any of the fancy high dollar Mausers out there, they are a working mans gun and you could not have done better. Every one Ive shot,shot well indeed, they point and feel great, they are stocked exceptionally well with excellent but rather plain wood, and they balance perfectly. Fancy wood never helped kill a Buffalo or elephant.

Its no problem to get 2650 FPS with a C&H, its a strong 98 Mauser action, that's been opened up properly, just like a Mark 10 or most any other good custom 98 Mauser in that caliber..None of which have blown up that I know of for that reason..

From my observation on buffalo, a 300 gr. bullet at 2500 FPS has better penetration, and thumps the big stuff just as well and wins hands down with bullet performance over faster velocity. I know a lot of PHs that agree with that such as Finn Aagard, kavin Robertson (Doctori), and several more.

You have done well pilgrim!

Thousands of standard length 98s have been modified to accept Magnum length cartridges. I have never heard of one failing as a result.