Getting close to cutting the barrel length on a new .458 Lott. Krieger barrel. What's a good length for the Lott? I want it reasonably short. Most .458 Win's are 22 inches but the new Winchester Lotts are 24 inches. Can cut it to 24 but don't really want it that long unless it's needed for powder burn.

Make it 24", and make the first shot count.

Steve

When Jack Lott had the first rifle made for himself he made it with a 22" barrel after much research. However you can get the same velocity he achieved which was 2300fps with a 500 grain bullet by using a more mild load having less recoil with the 24" barrel.

My own 458 Lott has a 22" barrel, it's not a hunting rifle it's my work rifle. For a visiting sporstman hunter the barrel length is not as critical. 24" should suit you fine. I'm 5' 10" tall and 24" barrels are uncomfortable for me to pack in thick bush. I even had my 30/06 cut to 22". I don't see any reduction in functional power from a 2" shorter barrel. It does however take a higher recoiling load to equal what the 24" barrel will get.

The Lott design intent was to create what the Win mag was suppose to be. Which was a duplicate of the 470 nitro express. The 470 NE load developed 2150fps with a 480 grain bullet. That is the standard DG load. It's real easy to get 2150 with a 500 grain bullet in a 22" barrel from the Lott. I can get 2250 with no excess pressure using several different powders. With a 24" barrel you will easily exceed the 470 NE standard. jj

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It seems there is never enough time to do things right, but always enough time to do them over

Just to be picky, the standard 470 NE load has always been a 500 gr bullet at 2150 fps.

With my Lott, with a 500 gr. bullet, the velocity from the CZ 25" barrel with one particular load dropped from about 2350 fps to about 2250 fps after I had it cut to 22".

An acceptable trade, in my opinion.

Will

My first edition of John Taylors book African rifles and cartridge lists the 470 nitro Express at 480 grians. If that is in fact wrong then I apologise. It's the book I took the information from. There is a lot of detail regarding this cartridge and it's use. The reference was made several times so I doubt it was a typo, maybe just his unfortunate misinformation. However it could be the very first loads he used were 480 and they were changed to 500 in the future? The 20 grains of bullet weight does little to change the result in any case! Thanks jj

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It seems there is never enough time to do things right, but always enough time to do them over

I think you guys in WA must be getting fried from global warming or plotting a subtle attack on us senile 470 owners!!

No where in my 1977 reprint is there any mention of 480 gr. bullets. My original boxes of Kynoch all have 500 gr. bullets.

Your devil plot has been exposed!!

Which of course has nothing to do with the original post. I vote for the 22" barel.

JJ:

I hate you. Now you have planted the seed of doubt. Of all the things I've read about the 470 I have never heard of a 480 gr. bullet. The problem with most of the old-timers is that they hardly mentioned what rifle they were using much less the bullet weight.

I will keep my eyes open to see if I ever notice a reference to 480 gr. bullets, but I don't remember seeing any in all the old books. Indeed you may be right, as you have Taylor's first edition.

Will

My Lott is 22" and does just fine with any load I can stand! 24" will serve you well, but if you want it 22" IT WORKS!

JJ,
I think you mean the 450 NE 3.25" not 470NE, the 470 uses a 500 gr bullet @2150, and the 458 WIN Mag was brought out duplicate the 450NE 3.25" which uses the same dia of the 480 gr bullet,(.458),and the 458 was supposed to get 2150 with a 500 gr bullet. But it couldn't do the trick,Falling short, and should have not had a bullet any heavier than 480, and would have worked much better with a 400 gr bullet. You are right the 458 LOTT is what Winchester should have come out with instead. It has about the same powder capacity as the 450NE 3.25" but is used in a much stronger rifle, and can be boosted up to handle the 500 gr bullets,at higher velocity than the 480 in the 450NE, though not really needed. Winchester had the 375 H&H length action, so the 458 Win Mag didn't make sense, when all they wanted was a rimless 450NE 3.25", the Lott was the way to go. The 450NE 3.25" had nothing to appologize for, as it would do anything either of the other two would, as far as the Buffalo was concearned.

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

[This message has been edited by MacD37 (edited 04-07-2002).]

JJ,

The only reference to a 480 gr bullet is in the 450#2 465 NE, 475 #2, and the 475NE. Every reference (old and new)I can find about the 470 shows a 500 gr bullet.

Personally, I like the longer barrel on my 458 Lott. Originally when I order the rifle I said 24", later I changed it to 25" and now it is at 26". I am over 6'1" and I love the barrel heave feel of a big rifle. I also like the long sight radius for iron sights.

Steve

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Every man dies, but not every man really lives!!

Thank you guys. Think I'll make the barrel 22 inches. Of course it's a buffalo rifle and it should be easy to use in the brush so,,, I've got RCBS dies for the Lott so after shooting up the three boxes of A-Squared ammunition I'll work up to 2250 ft/sec on my own. BTW, A-Squared cartridges worked with our chamber reamer, but the Superior Ammunition with the expensive steel-penetrator Speer Grand Slams will not fit. As soon as there are some A-Squared's to reload I'll take the Superior's down, resize and trim and reload the Grand Slams. Not gonna waste THOSE bullets.

Not that I doubt much about what St. Taylor ever said (except the 4 or 5 eland with one shot story) he may have jumped to the conclusion that the 470 was using 480 gr. bullets like all of its contemporaries.

I was out shooting the 22", ~2250 fps Lott today. It has plenty of horsepower at the butt end.

If any of you have read John Taylors books they are difficult to follow on occasion because he write as a person will speak in conversation. Many of the things he writes jump forward and back with out reference as he thinks your folloing along even though you may be still on another concept entirely.

He lists quite a few loads for the rifles chambered from 450 through 476 NE the tables listed in the book show plenty of 480 grain references and only a couple of 500 grain references. I suppose with his writing style, and the variety of rifles he must have used it might have been hard to remember all the details? Maybe it's his writing style or my inability to follow the way it's written that is at fault regarding the 480 grain weight.

He does in fact write that "satisfactory performance can be had with the entire lot of NE cartridges. One would be hard pressed to tell any of them apart on game"

Since so many are listed with 480 grain bullets and only one or two references are made to the 500 grain bullet, to me at least that implies the 480 was the standard and the 500 was the odd bullet weight?

On page 76 starting under the picture he writes:

For general all around work amongst heavy and dangerous game you will go a long way to beat the 480 grain bullet- let it be clearly understood to avoid needless repetition, that it matters not from which all of these rifles it's fired or whether it's a 480, 500, or 520 grain bullet in weight, or whether the rifle firing it is a .450, .465, .470, .475, or .476 caliber. What applies to one of them will apply to all of them.

That is direct from the book, yet in plenty of other areas he describes why one is better then another? Go figure, he was not a lawyer he was a poacher!

He may have been a poacher but he probably wrote the best couple books ever on Africa hunting and its rifles.

One doesn't know squat about Africa without having read Taylor!

True?

Arock,

Sounds like the chamber of your Lott is one with the chamber length of 2.80". Most of the new Lott chambers are the same a Clymer's reamer at 2.85" which is the same as the original Watts.

Has anyone heard what the Hornady ammunition is going to be? Also what the Ruger commercial chamber length is?

Steve

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Every man dies, but not every man really lives!!

Arock:

Things are going to get better or worse with the Speer AGS.

Federal had Speer move the canalure further toward the bullet tip. This is good news for you as the OAL will be shorter.

It is bad news for me as the case is full of powder and I can barely get the old ones seated down far enough to crimp. The new ones are impossible.

Will

Will, I would not be quoting his information if I did not feel the same way you do!

I just purchased a 458 Lott with a P14 action for my work. I am having Wild West Guns pop a ghost ring rear sight on it shortly. I am currently looking for a stock as well (the one I have has a hairline crack that WILL open up) Any opinions on stocks for this rifle? I have some ammo coming from Hornady and will provide commentary on its performance shortly (range and on critters) Feel free to mail me direct at andy@shottist.com
Thanks in advance for any help.
Andy

Andy,

Welcom to the list...jim dodd

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"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

To you LOTT shooters,
Please look at my question on RL 7 w/ 500 gr. bullets.

AROCK,
My partner, TYE had his .458 Win. converted to a LOTT. The barrel is now 21" and he is having a hell of a time getting 2300 fps.

His best so far is with RL 7 and a 450 gr. bullet.

Look at JJ's previous posts for some good information. Keep your expectations realistic and keep your sanity.

SAM

Want to post a hearty THANK YOU! to all you guys for your help. You're the folks who make this board a quality resource.

Good shooting.

So what barrel length did you end up with?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Will:
Hi Will,
If your case is full of powder why bother to crimp. The powder won't let the bullet move back due to recoil. I never crimped with my 450 Ackley for this reason and never had a problem.

langlois
Welcome to the forum. Is your stock not repairable.

470 Mbogo

Dear friend: this is a kind of personal choice and what others say here is a proof, every one is happy with his own choice. It depends of purpose and use you want. In my personal rifle, my 458Lott is a single shoot 26" plus 2" holland brake, all is full bull and recoil is not more than a 308, I dont have to shoot any animal under 30yds, just animal (big-medium and small) in a range of 100 to 250yd, so I selected a long barrell and a Leupold VaryX3 4-12X MIL Dot, same of my sniper rifle, I�m getting 1/2 to 3/4 groups in a bench shooting at 100yd, I use bullets from 300grains to max 450grains, I dont need more, plus some 250 custom ones , so is working fine for me. But if you are thinking doing something diferent like make long walks and closer range shooting in crowd enviroment, 24 is OK but not go under 22" unlees you have a long throat chamber and changing seating deep in order to work with top loads in safer range without leave extraction or bolt action get heavier, also very important is the twist rate you selected and bullet you plan to use, so good hunting and good look.