Ok, what do I need next?

I have a .375 H&H, a .416 Rigby, and a .600 OverKill. There's a big gap there.

I've thought about a .458Lott or a .470Mbogo. The .416 is real close to the Lott in terms of energy. The Mbogo might be more intresting.

I've considered the new .550 Magnum, but that's pretty close to the .600.

Maybe a .505 Gibbs or .500 Jeffery? I don't know. Should I wildcat the .600 case?

I am going to put my name on the list for a Montana Rifleman PH action, so I have plenty of time to decide which caliber to chose.

What do you recomend?

George,

I say 505, and here is my reasoning. Although hopefully CZ will release them in the next year or two (I promised the guy at CZ I would buy one) it is nostalgic, uncommon, and would be easier than the 500, and probably more useful or usable than the 600 wildcat.

Now, depending on budget, you might contact one of the fine Montana located gunsmiths regarding this and sweet talk them. Jerry Fisher had a beautiful one at the ACGG show in January. I wouldn't use the super expensive action he had (double square bridged mauser afair) but it was awesome. I have some pics if you would like me to e-mail them to you.

I would use a cz550, or the 602 if you can find it (was that the predecessor to the 550?) I have been told that the 550 is a great platform for the 505 and there are a couple of guys that frequent here that I am sure could give you all the guidance in the world. Mr. Burgess posted a good bit of info on the thread when we were discussing CZ producing them.

AND the guy from CZ that I talked to on the phone said that they were talking to S.B. about producing ammo.

Just my 2c.

Red

Thanks Dago. I'm kind of leaning toward the .505, but want some opinions from the board on the other choices or even something I haven't thought of. All options are open at this point.

One more thing guys, if you are going to vote "None of the Above", please post YOUR choice.

Thanks

I think you need a big bore that is light enough to carry and has low enough recoil to be fired at whitetails from a tree stand. It should also be one that you can find ammo for in Africa in case your ammo suitcase is lost by the airline. Therefore I voted for the 458 lott.

Looking at the lineup you already have I would probably opt for the next step down actually, something maybe more ideal for distance shots on plains game? I don't know what you have in the medium bore range, I would consider a 358 Norma maybe, or 338 win mag.

Personally I have a 458 Lott being built (other things keeping getting in the way so it is postponed now until after Dec. while I finish another project). I have a 375 and that is it in the bigger guns. (well, 45/70 No. 3) so I have a large gap too. I am thinking though that since I am having the 416 Taylor built for my stepfather I might have one built for me too. I have a gorgeouse 09 argentine action sitting in the safe, even have a pretty nice blank to go with it. :-)

Thanks for starting this topic, I love these types of threads.

Red

PS.

One thing I will really look at before deciding on another one is the big bore metric cartridges that were used before 1950, there has to be one out there that performed well. INput from any of you mauser collectors? (Alf?)

Dago, I got the downside (smaller stuff) covered.



I've also used the .416 out to 300yards with good effect.

GeorgeInNePa

Why isn't the 450 Rigby rimless on the list? It is a fantastic caliber

A 404 Rimless Nitro Express/ Jeffery would be nice to fill the gap with

Cheers
/ JOHAN

Practicality is hard to cope with for me...but the .458 lott is apractical bigbore for bullets and other reasons which your already aware of. I have one on a cz 550 and I feel it really is the "practical" big bore.

i've preached this one before...

if you do a .510, do it off a weatherby case....

my next project is going to be a 470 mbogo, i think... whenever the H actions make it out.

but, i've got a 376, 416 t, an 550 express projects to finish...

jeffe

470 Capstick

The answer is obvious! You now need something on the .50BMG case! Consider joining the FCSA and learning to shoot at 1000 yrds! It's a blast and the learning curve is steep! I've had more fun at those matches than literally anyplace else. -Rob

It doesn�t have the romance or nostalgia, but I voted for the .458 Lott. It fits nicely between your .416 Rigby and .600 OK. A step up from the 400gr bullet to a 500 gr bullet. Brass is easy to find (can always be made from full length belted brass) and .458 bullets are plentiful and comparatively inexpensive. Lighter .458 bullets can be used for smaller game and practice. A practical choice.

-Bob F.

.500 A-Square. Brass is easier to come by than the .505 Gibbs, and it doesn't present the (reported) feeding problems of a .500 Jeffery.

George

George,
let me tell yo, from experience, the reported issues with the 500 are true.. you have to get your local witchdoctor to sit with you during the mods to feeding....

once it's fixe,d it feeds like fish in a pipe... until it's fixed, well,,, it feeds like pipes falling off a truck

jeffe

Jeffe,

I used '(reported)' because I could not remember if the problem had been diagnosed and a fix suggested. I was not trying to imply that the feeding problems were only anecdotal.

George

When you select calibers from .375 to .550, you are talking hunting and I think the 470 Mbogo and 450 Dakota would be excellent choices, all of which can be built on a CZ action. That 470 Mbogo certainly sounds interesting!!!!!

Dak

George,
didn't mean to sound like a jerk (sorry if i did)... i thought these things would be an easy fix... they aint.. it's not all THAT much harder than a rigby, but that's not a simple chore..

of course (grin) is might just be that I need more experience... i think JB or Jim or butch could do it in their sleep... it gives me sleepless fits!!!

jeffe

George,
I've always been impressed with the .470 Mbogo and all the work Dave has done with this cartridge. He has lots of info on his website and interesting video's to go with it.I'm sure he'd help you 100% with the project.
http://470mbogo.com
The other method you could use is put your choices in a hat and pull one out.
Good luck with which ever one you choose .

458 lott for all around cartridge. You could always go for the 3.00" version or the 3.25" version and really cover all the bases.

550 Magnum well you can guess why I would suggest it

RNS

Why the 500 A-Square instead of the 495 A-Square? It would seem that the straight taper of the 495 would feed better and both should give pleanty of velocity.
???

George, you have all the categories covered so to me the next choice would be to design your own.
Of the above the Overkill wildcat idea gets my vote.


Karl.

Well the .458Lott has a "lott" of support here. I'll be honest, I don't see me building one any time soon. With the Ruger and the CZ out there, I expect to see a few for sale in the coming months. You know, "For sale-1 .458 Lott rifle, 19 rounds of ammo included" If I saw one cheap, I'd probably have to grab it.

Karl,
I'm kind of leaning toward a .510" (something throated for Mil-Surp bullets) on the Overkill case if I wildcat anything. Maybe even in a heavy, long barreled rifle, for busting rocks at a distance.

Rob,
The 1000 yard game sounds like fun, BUT there are no 1000 ranges close by. Williamsport does not allow the use of .50BMG's anymore. I think the closest range for .50's is in Virginia. I can't get to a local pistol match once a month, let alone a 1000yard match 5 or 6 hours away!

GeorgeS and Jeffe,
The .500 A-Square is a .510" bullet on the .460 case, correct? That could be a contender.

Thanks for the opinions and the advice guys.

George,
yep.. .510 on the weatherby case.. 500 a2, 510 wells, and 510 jab... depending on the action, the 495 might be easier.

Don't expect to see the published velocities... they are higher pressure than the 500 jeffe... but you can make the 500, 535 at 2400, easy.

jeffe

Has anyone built one of those .404's on the .416 Rigby / 500 Jeffery case that ALF? was researching a while back? That sounded interesting to me. I must go review that thread...



My friend also has an original 11.2x72 Schuler - another interesting rifle. He was looking at the feasibility of building another "shooter" but where to get a barrel! He talked with Hatari Times editor/gunsmith Harald Wolfe who built one about where he got his barrel. Wonder if we could get enough interest here to get a batch of barrels made by Dan Pederson or ?...Count me in for 2! A very nice shooting rifle with modern bullets available update this cartridge to avoid comments like Taylor had for it back then.



Jeff P

I don't think I had all the details correct in the above post...but here't the link back to that .404 Schuler Mag thread...
.404 Schuler Mag

Jeff P

HI,

George, you have some heavy hitters there maybe a 338 might fit in there.If I ever get some extra cash down the road I think a 338 would be great also.I am getting a 416 Rigby from MR. Brockman any day now, and have a 510 in a lever,338 sounds good to me,Kev

Please consider the fine and little known 475 A&M...the 378 necked up to .475. Ackley lists the following:

400 SP IMR 3031 120 grs 3227 fps 9250 fpe

500 SP IMR 3031 110 grs 2980 fps 9860 fpe

600 SP IMR 3031 105 grs 2502 fps 8340 fpe

The 600 gr load from only 105 grs of propellant is very impressive, and this should be very easy to form from readily available Weatherby brass. Benchmark would be better than 3031 these days.

Thanks for the opinions and info guys.

Kev,
I have Jim Borden building me one of his Sheep Hunter rifles in .300 Borden(.300Weatherby Imp). Looking back now, I should have asked for the .338 version. Oh well a .30 cal with 180 or 200 gr bullets will do it just as well.

Sabot,
Check out Saeed's info on the .475/.416Imp. He wasn't able to get the velocity that this round is supposed to put out.
http://www.accuratereloading.com/475rigby.html

Basicly the same as the .475A&M. Also the same as the .470Mbogo. I think if I was going to build a .475(not ruling it out at this point), it would be a .470 Mbogo. If for no other reason than the guy who designed it posts on this board. That and it's a really cool looking round.

It seems like a 550g bullet might be perfect for both the 470 Capstick and Saeed's 475/416 Imp. Saeed should get 2400 fps with no pressure problems with a 550g bullet and the 470 Capstick should get 2150 as easily almost duplicating the 500 NE express load with of course less bullet frontal area and less recoil. It's too bad Woodleigh doesn't make their excellent bullets in that weight yet.

Regards,
Chuck

I think I would go with a 500 Jeffery. At 6900 ft.lbs it fits in between the 416 and 600 nicely.

Lots of good insite here. The gap that needs filling is in the 475-510 range for a one gun addition. If you were are going to get another big bore down the road then the 458 lott is about as good as it gets. Ammo is readily available and rifle weight is reasonable for all day carry for the average guy. Then a 510 or 550 at a later day would really complete your battery.

That said if you plan on one gun to fill the void my personal choice would be for a 470 M'Bogo. I own most of the discussed options and I like Dave's creation for it's simple and effective function. It's an easy job to rebarrel a CZ from 416 Rigby to the 470 M'Bogo and cases are easy to get and form. It beats the 475 A&M by 120 fps at full loads and it's a breese to get to feed if anywork is needed at all.

Rob and I both have done the 510-600 Ok and it's amazingly good but it's a heavy rifle with a break if you want to shoot full house loads with any regularity.

If you want a 510 caliber there really is none easier than the 500 A2. Much like teh M'Bogo it's a barrel swap from a CZ and some feeding work that is a bit more than what is needed for the M'Bogo but still not to bad.

In the end it's your rifle so get what tickles you the most. There are no wrong answers here so get what you want and go shoot it.

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeInNePa:
Ok, what do I need next?

You need to go on a hunt with those rifles and shoot some elephant, cape buff or hippos.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeInNePa:
Ok, what do I need next?

You need to go on a hunt with those rifles and shoot some elephant, cape buff or hippos.

I second Dan, get one of those fine killing rifles you already have and put a well placed hole in some DG. It's not what you should build next, it's what should you shoot next.

.........Sometimes a rifle we already have becomes a favorite tru use ....4 builds I,m contemplating are 9.3x64 Brenneke Scout type rifle ., 500 A-Sq. on a CZ action ,, a model 71 in 450 Alaskan and a 475 A&M on a CZ action .a......If I can,t buy one from a friend I may have to find a Japanese model 71 Winchester and send it to someone on the Kenai and have it made up .....

Not sure why I want one but I sure am getting a hankerin for one ......